Help With Retrieve

[bret]

I will do my best to explain this short so i can get some answers.

I have trained maiya in shirley chongs retreice method. I have worked my way up to throwing the dumbell 8 feet away, she looks at me, i say 'take it' she will go get the dumbell, bring it back, now for the first few times 'out' will work, but she is starting to just look away from me, until i say her name or a grumblier out' this is getting frustrating.

i am trying to teach her new tricks that involve retrieving, ie: get your lead, bring me your bowl etc, but take it only works a certain number of times. I am not sure if she is actually being a 2yr old border and pushing my buttons, but she knows the command, i have used 'take it' successfully, first time with a ball, rope, shirt etc,

I have written shirley for help but no answer.

what i want to know is how do you make the retrieve fun for the dog, when it is a little boring for the both of us to continually go and 'take it' the same thing. she loves to fetch, we play it every day, but i feel she is getting super bored and needs more stimuli!

i hope there is a question in there.

oh, ps: i went back and completely retrained the retrieve from the first step, same thing.!!

bret

[JulesP]

What is the dog's reward for doing the retrieve??

[dogdude]

Hi Bret

Where are located? writing style suggest U.S?

Anyway.........It sounds like your dog is retrieving with his own prey drive (hence not wanting to give up the dumbell) rather than working the Shirley Chong method (click and treat?)

The dog should be extremely keen to spit it out on return to get her treat. So.....dog is either not hungry.............or has not been trained out properly working in prey drive. (or both)

Some drive trainers use an aversive method to teach out, and some make the out a way to restart the game instantly using the dogs natural desire to re-engage and satisty drive.

It sounds like you need to make the exercise a lot clearer to the dog. Work out which is your strongest motivator for the retrieve and stick to it.

[Arya]

Okay, basically I agree with dogdude here but I am going to go a bit unconventional here I think and tell you what I did and do. I utilise the prey drive for the retrieve to its max. I WANT it. And I rarely lose more than one or two points in the ring on dumbell exercises. Dumbell is the highlight of the ringwork for my dog. Plus, you are sneakily taking a toy in the ring if the dog loves it and unless the judge makes a point of getting it away with the steward you can usually give the dog a good look at it as you go in which revs them up as they know what's coming.

I do not go with the whole complex Shirley Chong retrieve, though it works beautifully if you get it right. To build drive with the dumbell and make the exercise super fun I PLAY WITH THE DAMNED THING and LET THE DOG KEEP IT!!!! Sacrilege LOL. Originally I trained my dog to 'fetch' 'hold' 'give' using a what might be termed 'gentle forced' method where you gently hold dumbell in mouth for a second and then reward with click and treat or in my case 'yes' and treat as I prefer my voice. This worked well and was kind. I think Tapferhund described it somewhere here once. However, I have a dog I had to hardly do any of this with as she picked up everything from the moment I got her, the little bugger. Sometimes NOT a bonus! LOL

To build enthusiasm and drive for dumbell, I USE DUMBELL as a reward. Dumbell comes out, 'go go go girl!!!' I use it like ball on string, or hose. Around and around we go, pretend throws, she zips thru my legs to get it, I tug with it. How to get release? Stop the game. Turn your back if necessary. If you have a little 'tester' who is trying to take power and hold on, I swap food for dumbell or... stop the game and frown. Reprimand if necessary with voice (be very very careful here!!! the idea of the whole method is to inspire the dog, not knock drive with reprimands and if the dog is soft you can ruin the whole thing but a couple of REALLY grumbly outs followed by instant restart of the game may be all you need if your dog is soft). And I have never had my dog, who can be quite dominant even though she is soft too, hang onto that dumbell in the ring. Look, maybe not for everyone but that is what I do. And long throws. And release the dog to the dumbell BEFORE it stops rolling now and again. The risk of preempting your command is greater but it is moving prey and the dog will run like hell for it. Plus just watch when doing lots informal throws that you throw far enough that the dog does not trip up on it when it is tumbling along. it is not soft like a toy. And if you do ringwork, take a toy in there too and do retrieves with the toy to inspire the dog to enjoy retrieving in the ring.

Just some hopefully helpful comments. Stay away from too much formal. It kills the dogs enthusiasm and they often never look good doing it.

[whatevah]

Okay I play the two toys game, and also let the dog keep it. To see what I mean look at these videos. These are my border collie. Also only do a couple of retreives and finish before the dog gets bored.

The fun you get to keep it retrieve, I learnt this from the Springloaded flyball DVD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJwhZxm2_6g

The two toys game. I found this method at http://www.k9events.com