Arthritis

[redkidsmum]

Hi all this is my first try at posting. I have a lovely boy toy poodle that I was going to use for my small stud but unforfunately he has luxating patella's in both hind legs so had him sterilised.(Breeder is replacing him at a later date)He also had a crutial ligament go which he had opperated on several months ago. Has become very lame since ,took him back to the vet who said the ligament is still intact but he has bad arthritis.He is only 12 mths old !! Vet has started him on weekly injections of CARTROPHEN for a month and has said my boy will probably need monthly injections for the rest of his life.Have any other breeders had this treatment and if so what relults.

[Rivkeh]

Hi redkidsmum

could you PLEASE post this in the Poodle thread:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...p;#entry2606212

as I'm sure you'll get some knowledgable advice from people that know the breed

best wishes,

Rivkeh

[witheverythingiam]

Cartrophen Injections work, but so does sylvet capsules which both have active ingredient "Pentosan Polysulphate". Sylvet may be cheaper in the long run, but needs to be stored in the fridge.

-WithEverythingIAm

[Staffyluv]

I agree with EIA.

Ollie has had the cartrophan injections for the last two years and they work fine for him (he only needs them annually at the moment) and they have worked fine for us so far.

However I have read many good things about sylvet capsules and have decided to give them a go if we need to have the injections more often.

Best of luck with your little one.

[~Archie~]

I have got a dog that has luxating patella as well as partial cruciate tear.

I did a 4 week course of pentosan injections and am now using joint guard as a long term measure to help the joints

Since starting the joint guard she is like a new dog, and she is weight bearing on all 4 legs

[CavsRcute]

If you can find a vet that does acupuncture, I find that this is good for arthrits. I also use Traumeel which is a homeopathic anti inflammatory and Flexicose which is a liquid glucosamine and condroitin.My dog has also just completed a course of the Cartorphen. I usually start this a couple of months before winter and give her a monthly injection during the colder months

[Poodle wrangler]

Sorry, I can't offer much advice.

Severe luxating patellas can be found by a vet when pup is still very young. Obviously it's not what you expect to find in a dog being sold as a stud . Sounds as though the breeder is doing the right thing in replacing your pup and you've done the right thing in desexing him.

The injections are only treating the pain and inflammation, not the cause of the problem.

Did the vet think the patellas are unsuitable to be operated on?

Perhaps a poodle breeder can suggest a good vet for this problem in your area?

[Christina]

I have no experience of the use of this drug. A poodle I had long ago had severe arthritis through out her whole body,diagnosed at 3 years of age. Treated her with a daily massage,she loved it,occasional metacalm in the colder months,tried acupuncture & saw no improvement. Short coat,very gentle clip & grooming & walks in a pushchair for her last 3 years. Lived 10 years but got very bad the last one. Sad.

I hope the breeder does not replace your puppy with one from the same,or close line breeding,or you could end up with the problem again. Check pedigree thoroughly. A disappointing start for you.

[Mystiqview]

A recommendation by a vet specialist with a dog who had an injury was to go down to your happy "discount chemist" and buy the glucossamine tablets. I had a medium sized dog and the recommendation for dosage was to 1/3 the dose rate for humans. It is the same stuff as the injection, and much cheaper.

He said it may take a little longer to work as it is tablet form, but over the long run, much cheaper option.

[ILuvAmstaffs]

I think individual dogs react differently.... Diesel had several courses of cartrophen shots & they never really seemed to help. We also tried sashas blend & again it did not help at all for him. The best results we saw where from joint guard & then even better on flexicose. He is now on flexicose & ester c & you wouldn't notice he has sever arthritis.

Also, with the cartrophen shots, our surgeon originally recommended a full course every 6 months or 1 shot a month. Whatever seemed to work the best for the individual dog.

[redkidsmum]

I have no experience of the use of this drug. A poodle I had long ago had severe arthritis through out her whole body,diagnosed at 3 years of age. Treated her with a daily massage,she loved it,occasional metacalm in the colder months,tried acupuncture & saw no improvement. Short coat,very gentle clip & grooming & walks in a pushchair for her last 3 years. Lived 10 years but got very bad the last one. Sad.

I hope the breeder does not replace your puppy with one from the same,or close line breeding,or you could end up with the problem again. Check pedigree thoroughly. A disappointing start for you.

Yes I am getting a replacement from the same line breeding but he is already one year old and has already sired lovely pups.Deceided on the older boy rather than a pup as at least I know he has no hip ot leg faults.

[redkidsmum]

Sorry, I can't offer much advice.

Severe luxating patellas can be found by a vet when pup is still very young. Obviously it's not what you expect to find in a dog being sold as a stud . Sounds as though the breeder is doing the right thing in replacing your pup and you've done the right thing in desexing him.

The injections are only treating the pain and inflammation, not the cause of the problem.

Did the vet think the patellas are unsuitable to be operated on?

Perhaps a poodle breeder can suggest a good vet for this problem in your area?

He had the patella repaired when the vet did his crutial ligament.My worry is the other patella is the worse one,so far it is holding well

[redkidsmum]

I have got a dog that has luxating patella as well as partial cruciate tear.

I did a 4 week course of pentosan injections and am now using joint guard as a long term measure to help the joints

Since starting the joint guard she is like a new dog, and she is weight bearing on all 4 legs

Thank you for your advice,he is on glucosomine as well as the injections.What is Joint Guard????

[~Archie~]

www.jointguard.com.au

It's glucosamine & chondroitin with MSM

The website has some good info on it

[Kelly_Louise]

I found that Cartrophen has worked really well for my girl. She has been on it for a number of years now (usually 4 courses once a year) and it has seen her through the bad times before her leg operations and has taken the edge off since her ops. She does have arthritis and suspected mild elbow dysplasia (from a pup); and Cartrophen (plus Sasha's Blend everyday in her food) has been a great combination for her. She has also tried Joint Guard in her food as well with similar great results as Sasha's.

[Christina]

I have no experience of the use of this drug. A poodle I had long ago had severe arthritis through out her whole body,diagnosed at 3 years of age. Treated her with a daily massage,she loved it,occasional metacalm in the colder months,tried acupuncture & saw no improvement. Short coat,very gentle clip & grooming & walks in a pushchair for her last 3 years. Lived 10 years but got very bad the last one. Sad.

I hope the breeder does not replace your puppy with one from the same,or close line breeding,or you could end up with the problem again. Check pedigree thoroughly. A disappointing start for you.

Yes I am getting a replacement from the same line breeding but he is already one year old and has already sired lovely pups.Deceided on the older boy rather than a pup as at least I know he has no hip ot leg faults.

Do some research on Patellas & health issues. The related boy from the same lines can still carry even if he is not showing the fault. The fact that he has already sired lovely pups does not mean that the pups patellas will be sound. Most breeders do not keep contact with puppy buyers to check a year later that all is well. They can be fine at 8 weeks & way out at 8 months. There was some good info in Breeders Community on this forum a few months ago. Search the topic.

One should try not to breed from a line with a known fault,thats anything other than very minor. Luxating patella is crippling,not minor.

[redkidsmum]

I have no experience of the use of this drug. A poodle I had long ago had severe arthritis through out her whole body,diagnosed at 3 years of age. Treated her with a daily massage,she loved it,occasional metacalm in the colder months,tried acupuncture & saw no improvement. Short coat,very gentle clip & grooming & walks in a pushchair for her last 3 years. Lived 10 years but got very bad the last one. Sad.

I hope the breeder does not replace your puppy with one from the same,or close line breeding,or you could end up with the problem again. Check pedigree thoroughly. A disappointing start for you.

Yes I am getting a replacement from the same line breeding but he is already one year old and has already sired lovely pups.Deceided on the older boy rather than a pup as at least I know he has no hip ot leg faults.

Do some research on Patellas & health issues. The related boy from the same lines can still carry even if he is not showing the fault. The fact that he has already sired lovely pups does not mean that the pups patellas will be sound. Most breeders do not keep contact with puppy buyers to check a year later that all is well. They can be fine at 8 weeks & way out at 8 months. There was some good info in Breeders Community on this forum a few months ago. Search the topic.

One should try not to breed from a line with a known fault,thats anything other than very minor. Luxating patella is crippling,not minor.

Thanks for you advice.The related line is from a sire who has been bred from a long, long time and is well known.New boy is from Entirely different dam, I suspect she might be the carrier as my boy has thrown to her.He actually grew much too big for a toy . at least I will know the new boy is the right height and has no problems himself.

[Christina]

So pleased to hear that news. I check back with puppy buyers at around 8 to 12 months & just check all is well. Luxating patella generally shows up in the 1st year,but not always. If it starts late it may be due to other causes. Get your dogs legs checked at their yearly vacc & check up & get results noted on your vaccination cards,for your own records,a good habit.

Oversize crops up a lot in the toys,I get this in some & am working on it. Very common but there are worse things. Health & soundness is the most important. Not all pups go to show/breed homes & people deserve healthy pets. It makes them go to registered breeders more too.

Hope all goes well for you now.

[Poodle wrangler]

....................

He had the patella repaired when the vet did his crutial ligament.My worry is the other patella is the worse one,so far it is holding well

Great.

However, the more often the kneecap dislocates, the more arthritic changes there will be. The dog is scraping bone on bone .

Was does the vet think about operating on the worse one sooner, rather than later?

My standard has luxating patellas- virtually unheard of in the big guys.

Not related to injury, either. It was on both sides , now only very rarely on the right side.

The vet suggests no operation for now, Xrays done etc., but it may mean some hard decisions later on (ie. PTS before his time) so that he does not suffer once treatments fail to control pain. I've let his breeder know and he is desexed.

Poodles can be very stoic dogs- he doesn't even whimper- just looks confused .

I'd be very worried about the luxating patellas being in this line. It's not responsible breeding to continue this fault. It's now common in other breeds like Chi's and it's not good. Good info. here about the problem and breeding... http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...uxating+patella.

Best wishes.

[rocshani]

I have no experience of the use of this drug. A poodle I had long ago had severe arthritis through out her whole body,diagnosed at 3 years of age. Treated her with a daily massage,she loved it,occasional metacalm in the colder months,tried acupuncture & saw no improvement. Short coat,very gentle clip & grooming & walks in a pushchair for her last 3 years. Lived 10 years but got very bad the last one. Sad.

I hope the breeder does not replace your puppy with one from the same,or close line breeding,or you could end up with the problem again. Check pedigree thoroughly. A disappointing start for you.

Yes I am getting a replacement from the same line breeding but he is already one year old and has already sired lovely pups.Deceided on the older boy rather than a pup as at least I know he has no hip ot leg faults.

I think you missed the point,the problem is already in the pesons lines.Just beacause your new dog has good legs does'nt mean puppies from him will. It will pop up again,that is the nature of genetics.Do you want someone to go through what you already have? But more importantly produce a pup that will live alife of pain? Don't want to come across as picky,but i see so many badly breed dogs,why add to it when you have the knowledge and can do something about it now.