Big Matted Areas

[Guest porterpup2]

Ok I have a very politically incorrect Cocker spaniel cross poodle... who I brush every 1 - 2 days with a soft brush and sometimes a wire comb.. I shampoo and condition him once a week, and use a de-tangle spray. he gets properly groomed in a vet surgery every 6 weeks. And is hair is very silky and soft, in fact he awalsys gets complimented on it, and about 2 - 3 inches long in most places.

Here are my questions.

He gets really really matted and I am forever having to cut them out, no-matter how many times I brush him he gets big matts.. Should I be cutting these out ever day as I find them ( he is getting very patchy ) How do I stop them? Are they as bad as I think.. should I just leave him to be one big matt and then cut them out in his weekly bath. I just don't know how to control them at all.

[Toohey]

Porterpup, what do you mean when you say soft brush? Do you use a slicker brush? If so, that should get the knots free. If your dog will tolerate it, it's best to use a fine metal comb and put the tip of it into the knots and gently pull them loose. Lie the dog on his side and get into all the crevices, underarms and groins are usually the worst.

Cutting is not a great idea as the fur will grow back more profuse and fluffy and will continue to cause problems.

Please don't leave him matted. I read somewhere on the forum here once that if a human had long underarm hair and they tied it in several knots and then used their arms normally, can you imagine how uncomfortable that would be, and how would the dog feel.

Ps , you have a Spoodle? Watch out for Jed who is on a Spoodle safari and might like to talk to you about shedding and Lagottos :D

Edited August 27, 2004 by Toohey

[Star'n'Gizmo]

I think it's definitely better to cut them out as you find them. How do you cut them out? If you catch them early enough you can work them out with a comb and your fingers but you do need lots of patience.

When I find one that I really can't work out with my fingers, I will cut along the matt in the direction of the hair and then try and work it out. If you cut across and take the whole matt out in one go, you will end up with patches. It does take lots of time and it helps when your pooch will stay still for you. :D

[chewy]

Hi porterpup2...you seem to be doing all the right things brushing but maybe you should go to the pet groomer and ask if you should get babies hair shaven off please don't leave it matted as it would be horrible for your baby very uncomfortable..if you feel like you can't cope with the brushing get babies hair cut on a regular bases..that way you will be happy as so will baby..

[Dali-love]

Hi PP2 What sort of brush are you using? A soft brush won't take the knots out but a slicker will.

[Nadia]

I would suggest that you try a soft touch/tender care slicker brush...(I like Lawrence ones) and a steel comb.

Where does he get these matts? Legs? Ears?

behind the ears?

Any area that the dog can reach to scratch or chew needs particular attention at grooming time.

Try to remove as much of the matting as possible before bathing.

Bathing tightens the matts and makes them harder to remove.

Work through the coat a section at a time using the slicker and comb, tease out any knots you come across and gently work them out with the comb.

Really bad, large sections may need to be carefully cut through in sections from the skin out to the ends of the coat using scissors or a matt breaker to break them up into smaller manageable sections, then comb out.

Eliminate fleas totally, scratching and chewing destroys coat quickly.

When bathing, never rub the coat, squeeze the lather through the coat, dilute your shampoo in jug of warm water for easier application.

Use a quality conditioner when bathing and for best results blow dry and work throught the coat with the brush and comb till dry.

When you have a knot and matt free coat, a quick daily brush through with the slicker, particularly if the dog picks up bits of grass twigs etc when outside, will keep that coat under control.

If you cannot manage with the coat at 2/3 inches maybe you could ask your groomer to cut the coat back to a more easily maintained length.

Some coats are much higher maintenance than others. It depends on the texture length curl etc.

[Guest porterpup2]

hello, thank you for such prompt responses... its funny the matts are really just anywhere - not a particular place, and simply impossible to comb out, they are literally hard lumps.

A groomer told me about 4 months ago it was because the "baby hair" was falling out they "adult hair" was forming, so the fine baby hairs get caught in the adult hair.. but he is now 15 mths old and it is still happening.

He doesn't seem to have any fleas... but is ALWAYS rubbing himself on the ground, and scratching his ears onto the ground, and ALWAYS rolling in grass and dirt... more so than any other dog I have ever seen.

I was so worried about the ears scratching thing I took him to the vet but there is no infection.

I did wonder whether he tries to rub the scent of the shampoo off him because I wash him once a week, but I have tried many different brands from the $27 a bottle ones (!!) to the $5 a bottle ones and he rubs himself on the ground no matter which one...

These matts are driving me and him insane because I am always pulling at them!!!!

PS. I use a soft bristled brush and a metal grooming comb , i tried a slicker brush, but it just gets stuck in the matted fur.

[Dali-love]

Where do you live pp2? Maybe there is a profesional groomer in your neighbourhood where you can go to

(I am in brisbane and yes a profesional dogwasher/groomer but I don't clip!)

[Jed]

porterpup2, is he shedding?

You will probably do better to groom him with a slicker, or a pin brush, which will reach right to the skin. If you have him shaved, you might have a bigger problem.

Try washing him in Fidos Everyday Shampoo, and condition him with a good quality conditioner for dogs.

Buy some Alpha Keri oil from the chemist, mix up 1/4 Alpha Keri to 3/4 warm water in a 500 ml spray bottle, and spray him a couple of times a week. Shake the bottle before spraying.

Plush Puppy also make a foam product in an aerosol can (sorry, not sure of the name) which comes out as foam. If you spray this on the knots, it helps loosen them - you can tease them out from the edges with a steel comb.

Edited to say - It is not politically incorrect to own the dog you want. However, it is politically incorrect for others to bag you for doing so! :D

Edited August 27, 2004 by Jed

[Domestic Dreamer]

Would anyone recommend a shedding comb like the Mars coat king? That has blades that would get through the knots and thin the fur wouldn't it? I dunno, I don't have one, just heard about them. :D

[Guest porterpup2]

porterpup2, is he shedding?

Edited to say - It is not politically incorrect to own the dog you want. However, it is politically incorrect for others to bag you for doing so! :D

No he doesn't shed at all.

And I LOVE THAT quote!

[Jed]

Hi, Maiko - I don't know about the Coat King - it works well, but was designed for use on unknotted coats. However, perhaps a coarse one (fewer teeth) would help, but it would thin the hair too, which may not be a good idea.

A dematting tool may help - like a Coat king, but designed to cut through knots.

Incidentally. Coat King has now released a new model - specially for pet owners, which retails for around $30. I think this is a great idea.

Pleased you liked the quote porterpup! :D

Have you tried Aloveen shampoo on him? It is supposed to be very good (never tried it), and lots here recommend it. give the Alpha Keri a go - it is only about $6 a bottle, and that makes up quite a few spray bottles, and it might just help.

[capanash]

Sounds like the dog is going through coat change , like a poodle does when growing adult coat. It is most important to brush from the skin, try dividing the coat with a knitting needle and brushing in sections with a slicker. You can easily brush over the top of matts, we see this in some of the pet poodles we groom and the owners do brush frequently, just haven't been shown the correct technique.

If you find the grooming too hard for you and the dog, just clip him short, warm weather is starting and he will be more comfortable.

[Rascalmyshadow]

I agree with everyone else as a professional groomer I would recommend you have him clipped to 1inch all over and maybe a bit shorter underneath.

If you want to keep him longer try using fido's everyday shampoo (as someone else suggested) and condition him with "Crown Royale" Condition Plus coat conditioner, leave the conditioner on for the shortest recommended time and see how you go, if it's not enough try a bit longer next time. This if done once a week should prevent most knots if you are also brushing properly.

Just a tip (I think someone may have already mentioned) never bath a dog that has knots they will just double in size.

Good luck!

[Dogsfevr]

If its brushed correctly it wont matt its as simple as that unless it has some other reason to create the knots.

I have setters with soft silky coats which are brushed every wednesday during there full maintance bath & at shows other than that no brushing.

A soft bristlle brush is totally useless & just brushes over the coat not penetrating to the skin.A comb is fine if also used through to the skin.

If this dog has alot of puppy fluff then you need the right combs to cope with his type of coat & cutting the knots out whilst easy leaves the hair with so many lenghts that it looks awful.

Yes a slicker brush is a must ,the comb you have & a good matt breaker ,the matt breaker removes knots easily & also thins the coat & helps remove the crappy coat which is what knots.

The matt breakers do require gentle use but used correctly are worth there weight in gold.

If your groomer is a good one they should be able to show you the tools you need & how to use them correctly it only takes about 10 mins to show someone.

Some shampoos/conditioners can help create knots & if i oil my male setter he will matt over night so i spray nothing on his coat & wash him in pantene smooth & sleek & he never matts runs an acre & gets week as anything.

[Wiz's Mum]

Wiz has soft silky double-coated fur. It also has kinks along the saft like a sheeps wool. This means that he can mat up before I finish blinking on a bad day.

The only way to maintain him, especially in knot prone areas like his feathers and behind his ears, is to use a slicker brush (the soft-touch one) and use it against the grain. I also use my free hand tho hold up the easily knotted areas and comb back from the lowest layers - kinda like the hairdresser cuts your hair.

Once knotted even the tiniest bit I find I can detangle them by holding the knot towards the skin and working from the outside of the knot in. If there is a bit that I can't untangle I use nail scissors to cut the knot away, as close to knot as I can (trying to leave maximum length of fur).

I find it also helps to check problem areas every day when patting.

[mita]

as a professional groomer I would recommend you have him clipped to 1inch all over and maybe a bit shorter underneath.

Just a tip (I think someone may have already mentioned) never bath a dog that has knots they will just double in size.

Good luck!

Totally agree...both were going to be my suggestions.

Then I'd use Episoothe Shampoo (available from vets.) I'd also put some Melrose cold-pressed Linseed (flaxseed) oil in his daily dinner to help with skin health (available from fridge in health-food shops & pharmacies).

I'd also then groom as people have suggested....keeping an eagle eye for the start of any knot (nip the matts in the bud!) I have two pairs of scissors for doing that.

1. a pair of embroidery scissors..nice long fine points &

2. (best of all) a small pair with rounded points....so can't dig into the dog....& a curve in the blades so they fit across a small knot for cuttig (got these scissors from a pet supplies store.)

[Maverick]

I have cockers who matt.. usually in their arm pits which hurts

This is what I do... bath and then leave in conditioner (I like Laser Lites). Hair dry then get a wide tooth comb and gently detangle. If its not a wash week, I love Aloveen conditioner. Rub some on your hands then rub into matt and viola, no more matt.

I find wide tooth combs the best for grooming.

[Ceilidh]

PP2, where are you? There are quite a few professional groomers on this forum and maybe you will find someone near you who is happy to give you some tips. That is the best way to go. Even when a dog comes in regularly every six weeks I still teach my clients how to care for their dogs in between. It really is easy when you know how and have the correct tools.

[poodlefan]

Porterpup, is it possible for you to post of pic of your dog - a nice closeup on coat would be helpful.

Sounds like you may need to reassess HOW you groom as well as your tools.

If the coat is a non-shedding one, you really do need a slicker brush. As

Capanash says, with a poodle type coat, you have to make sure you brush from right close the the skin rather than going 'over' the coat.

I would recommend you start with the slicker and use the steel comb to tease out any matts. If they are simply too big you can cut them out.

Frequency may also be an issue - how often are you brushing?

If the coat is loose and wavy rather than tight, clipping it too close may not be a good thing. Clipped Cockers coats go very curly and whispy...

I support the idea of a visit to a professional groomer. They can sort out the matts and recommend the right equipment and regime to keep the coat in good order. It may be that such frequent washing and an incompatible produce aren't helping and a groomer can advise you on this also.