Demodex-whats Right & Whats Wrong

[moochi]

A recent post in here, that I saw, had me realising JUST how wrong it is to just cut & paste info from the internet without having dealt with the disease or researched it correctly.

You can give someone false/misleading information without meaning too,which I am sure is the case below

Eridor

13th Apr 2008 - 09:17 PM

Post #33

Raz,

how has fonz having a mite that every dog carries be related to what ever is going on with pancake. Sorry to hear pancake isnt well.

Demodectic mange :

It important to realise that the Demodex mite is a normal inhabitant of a dog’s hair follicle and therefore lives in harmony with the host. When the mite causes disease it appears to be due to the host failing to regulate the mite numbers rather than the fault of the mite. As the multiplies within the follicle damage occurs and the hair falls out. This will appear as patches of thinning hair or hair loss. In young dogs it is often seen around the eyes and other parts of the face, under the neck and on the front legs.

from here vet stop

What is demodicosis? Top

Demodicosis is an inflammatory, parasitic skin disease that is caused by a large population of mites, which lives in the hair follicles of dogs. Normally the mite, known as Demodex canis, is present in almost all dogs. However, an inflammatory reaction develops when the population of mites becomes too large for the immune system to regulate.

Young dogs, less than one year old, sometimes develop demodicosis before their immune system fully matures. Most show only small patches of hair loss, commonly on the face or legs. This form, called 'localized' demodicosis, often resolves without treatment (90% of cases). A small percentage of these cases will progress to the 'generalised' form.

from here Patalia

ETA spelling

This post has been edited by Eridor: 13th Apr 2008 - 09:19 PM

I have of course dealt during my time as a vet assistant (I wont say nurse as I am not qualified) with many different cases of localised & generalised Demodex, the 4 vets at our practice have all found with the various different cases that whilst Democodosis is a mite that "all puppies carry" it will only occur in pups with a low or suppressed imunological deficiency problems. Since Immune problems can be & generally are genetic it is a problem for litter mates. We have now started referring people with pups with demodex/demodectic mange/democodosis to holistic vets working on the principal of treat from the inside out working on increasing & improving the suppressed immune system, whilst treating with Advocate from the exterior as well.

Demodectic Mange

by Dr. William Griswold, DVM

A common skin disease of dogs, demodectic mange (canine demodecosis) is caused by the mite Demodex canis. This mite is found as a normal resident in the hair follicles of all dogs. Mites are naturally transmitted from nursing mothers to their puppies within the first few days of life. Signs of disease appear only when mites reproduce unchecked and occur in unnaturally high numbers .

In mild cases, signs of demodectic mange include itching and scratching, reddened or scaly skin, blackheads, and patchy hair loss. More severe cases are accompanied by widespread hair loss, pustules (pimples), and a crusty appearance of affected areas. The head and feet are most commonly involved.

The exact reasons that dogs develop mange are not fully understood, but genetics and immune suppression both play a role. A tendency to develop demodicosis runs in some families, with the same parents consistently producing affected puppies. While all breeds are susceptible, some are at increased risk. Some of the breeds in which demodecosis can be particularly common or severe are Old English Sheepdogs, Dobermans, Boxers, Shar-Peis, Shih-Tzus, and Lhasa Apsos. Immune suppression due to underlying diseases (such as Cushings’s disease and hypothyroidism), or drugs (like steroids and chemotherapy drugs) may increase the risk of a dog developing mange as well.

Mange is diagnosed based on signs and history combined with deep skin scrapings. When viewed under a microscope, these scrapings reveal mites recovered from the hair follicles.

Demodecosis is often described by its age of onset and its distribution on the body. Dogs under 1 ½ years of age suffer from juvenile-onset mange. This form is often hereditary. Nearly half of all dogs with juvenile-onset demodecosis will heal by themselves. The other half, however, may experience secondary bacterial infections or other complicating factors that will require medical treatment. Demodectic mange in dogs over 2 years of age is classified as adult-onset, and usually occurs secondary to an underlying cause. Successful treatment of adult-onset mange relies upon identifying and correcting the underlying cause.

Distribution patterns of mange are described as focal or generalized. Focal mange affects a single area of the body. Generalized disease involves either the entire face or two or more feet. These classifications help veterinarians develop a prognosis for the treatment of mange.

Treatment consists of insecticidal dips and antibiotics to treat secondary infections; additional treatment of underlying medical conditions may also be necessary. The course of treatment lasts for several months in many cases and can be quite frustrating to both pet owners and veterinarians. In addition to treatment for mange, dogs that develop the generalized form of demodecosis should be surgically neutered to ensure that they do not breed, producing more susceptible dogs.

Prognosis for successful treatment is best in young dogs with localized disease. Older dogs, and those with generalized or complicated mange are more difficult to treat.

and from Dr Mike Richards DVM

I would be careful about the possibility of a recurrence of demodecosis. It would be worth checking

a scraping again, or even a couple more times, if this problem doesn't respond well to antibiotics.

Itching around the feet is sometimes associated with food allergies and these allergies can show up in

young dogs. This is also a source of chronic vomiting and sometimes diarrhea, as well. So it might be

worth checking into this. An elimination dietary trial, in which a protein source that your pup has not

been exposed to is used as the sole protein source for 3 to 8 weeks, is the usual method of trying to

rule out food allergies. Foods like salmon/rice, rabbit/potato, egg/rice or the newer hydrolyzed diets

are all possible diets to try to rule out food allergies. Our experience has been that we test for food

allergies about 30 times for every time we find it, but for the dogs we can diagnose with this

condition, there is a great deal of relief in just controlling their diet.

Sometimes immune system diseases occur because the immune system is working hard -- but not

doing the right job and actually causing harm. When this is the case, corticosteroids are necessary to

prevent the immune system from causing damage. This is what happens in juvenile cellulitis. Other

times, there is true immune suppression or immune compromise and in those diseases, when the

immune system isn't working properly because of weakness, corticosteroids can cause terrible

problems because they further weaken an already weak immune system. Choosing when to use

cortisones and when not to can be very difficult. It was a difficult choice to make to treat a dog with

demodecosis with corticosteroids, but they are necessary when juvenile cellulitis is present --- this

would have been a really tough choice to make and I am glad to hear it worked out well.

There are some disorders that just occur in eyelids, such as infections of the glands that produce the

mucous for tears, along the lid margins. These are aggravating but are not especially serious. So there

is some chance that this is just an ordinary problem with bad timing, since you do have to take it

seriously with the past history.

Mike Richards, DVM

11/15/2000

And for a final one as I could quote demodex research all day,

Pet Health:

Demodex (Mange) in Dogs

Demodex - (demodectic mange, red mange) This parasite called a "mite" generally lives in peace and harmony on all dogs in the skin.

Infection from this parasite occurs when the body's immune system is unable to maintain this harmonious state with the demodex parasite. This is considered a genetic or inherited trait, and affected animals should not be used for breeding.

Young puppies under one year of age are most commonly affected, although older animals with depressed immune systems can also be affected. Diagnosis is made by "scraping the skin area" with a sharp blade, in order to "lift" the parasite off of the skin. The scraped material is then examined under the microscope to visualize the parasite.

This form of mange is NON-contagious and causes mostly hair loss in the areas of the skin affected. These patients are generally not itching or scratching themselves.

In severe cases, the entire body be affected, and along with hair loss, a secondary bacterial infection can occur. These patients can itch and scratch because of the bacterial infection. Treatment generally involves dipping the patient in a solution effective against demodex.

Usually, the dips are done on a weekly basis until all mites are gone. Oral medications can also be utilized in resistant cases.

So what do you think is anyone up for and educational & enlightening discussion on demodex?

Opinions are very welcome

Edited April 13, 2008 by moochi

[raz]

Thanks Moochi. I'll print all of that out.

[krankypuss]

Thanks, Moochie. Eridor's information was exactly what the vet had told me. She told me she is pretty sure that Fonz has localised as its not spreading over the body. He has had this for weeks now and it hasnt spread. It was at first thought it be a hotspot.

Edited to clarify, there is another spot, very small but it isnt near the original sore at all. The vets says the other spot starting isnt thought to be classed as *spreading*

Edited April 13, 2008 by krankypuss

[~Anne~]

It is thought that demodex is hereditary as well. Vets advise that bitches who have produced pups that develop demodicosis be desexed.

[bommy]

Thanks Moochi. I'll print all of that out.

Razzle - check this link out http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...emodex&st=0 its a good read too & hahhaa I postedin it soitmust be good

[raz]

Thanks Bom. Good ole Zayda Asher in there. She's a wealth of info.

[BC]

I was always under the impression that Eridor's post was correct. The mite is present in all dogs, but at times of stress or a low immune system the mite will multiply and therefore signs appear. Commonly seen in young puppies.

I have never heard that it is hereditary

[~Anne~]

I was always under the impression that Eridor's post was correct. The mite is present in all dogs, but at times of stress or a low immune system the mite will multiply and therefore signs appear. Commonly seen in young puppies.

I have never heard that it is hereditary

The hereidatry implication comes from the low immunity factor. It is thought that the weak immune system, which enables the mite to take a stronghold, is hereditary and possibly passed on by the bitch.

[raz]

so what's the best way to build the immunity?

[~Anne~]

so what's the best way to build the immunity?

Have a healthy dog.

If it is genetically related though there isn't much you can do. Having said that, like humans, a baby's immunity level grows each day so each day that passes makes them that little bit less susceptible.

[krankypuss]

What else can you do apart from diet to boost immunity, PRS? I went over Fonzy's diet with the vet she said there is nothing she would change. She commented his coat is beautiful. He is a very healthy weight and a happy dog.

[raz]

so what's the best way to build the immunity?

Have a healthy dog.

You're a bugger. I'm just thinking Diet Diet Diet. Not sure if I want to go down the path of homoeopathics - just undecided on that one.

[bommy]

Shame Nadia & Goldchow dont visit very often these days

They really helped when we dealt with demodex & a suppressed immune system with Major

But they have sharedinfo with heaps of dolers who are all on the same track asyou Moochi..

Razzle here is anotherlink : http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...emodex&st=0

[~Anne~]

What else can you do apart from diet to boost immunity, PRS? I went over Fonzy's diet with the vet she said there is nothing she would change. She commented his coat is beautiful. He is a very healthy weight and a happy dog.

Not much sadly Kranky. The immunity of anyone, including dogs, is dependant on many factors. Health, nutrition, stress and the hereditary factor. It really is anyone's guess. Just like your human babies, some will be prone to picking up everything that goes around whilst their siblings may not even though they are all fed and cared for the same way.

[krankypuss]

Thanks, Anne. Oh well, I will just keep doing what I am doing and hopefully it is a one off with him.

[PAX]

Stress can also compromise the immunity so make your doggy stress free.

Raz,

Puppy yoga and massage work well, so does playing your puppy music, make sure it is the sort of music your dog likes though or you could add to the stress.

You need to let your dog do what ever it likes including destroying the garden and eating the furniture, these are all good for canine stress relief.

[ShellyBeggs]

I was always under the impression that Eridor's post was correct. The mite is present in all dogs, but at times of stress or a low immune system the mite will multiply and therefore signs appear. Commonly seen in young puppies.

I have never heard that it is hereditary

Since the outbreak of demodx is directly related to the low production in lympocytes it can be caused by many things - drop in maternal antibodies, any stress factor, illness/unwell, poor condition and lastly, immune compromise caused by hereditary illness.

What you should be considering is that a pups immune system is behind te 8 ball naturally by the gradual reduction of maternal antibodies that is in no way relative to being heriditary, its just what happens. Some puppies lymphocyte production can pick up the slack quickly as the maternal anitbodies reduce, and others may take a bit extra time to produce their own antibodies.

Its the same in human babies or any babies for that matter that gain maternal antibodies across the placenta or through breast milk.

A study in the 1980s found the pups that were not weaned until much later they found almost no occurance of Demodectic mange throughout puppyhood. However the earlier that the puppies were weaned the more likely of an outbreak. This tells us that the puppies own immune system was able to take over before the maternal antibodies were absent in the late weaned puppies. This has no relevance to the case that it is hereditary.

It has occured in too many breeds and too many lines to be hereditary. That is like saying human skin mite is hereditary.

I was recently quoted to by an expert that 90% of cases occur in weaned puppies up to 12 months of age

most of the remaining occurs in dogs with known immune conditions.

I believe through reading vet medical journals that demodectic mange IS a symptom of a compromised/slow immune system but is not a direct link to the reason of this, whether it be hereditary or a intermittent event causing a stressed immunity.

I cannot see how demodectic mange can be, in itself, be a hereditary condition.

[Rysup]

I have dealt with demodex twice - mother and daughter - and no I did not breed either. I have since gone on to breed with the daughter and her 3 puppies have had NO incidence of demodex as yet. And both mother and daughter showed very strong symptoms by 4 months of age. However if any of the puppies I bred do prove to become affected then their mother will be desexed and not bred from again. There is so much contradictory information about demodex that I decided to do a test mating and see.

The daughter in my case was one of two only from her litter to become affected. She was very badly affected, loosing all the hair on her face at 4 months old, and so being kept out of the ring. She was back in the ring at 6 months, so it was resolved rather quickly. Her mother, it took a long time for her to be diagnosed. Her symptoms appeared as hot spots and they never showed on her face or legs, but rather her body.

The breed here is not one known for being affected by demodex, but I do know that very often our puppies will get a little bald patch.....clearly a demodex outbreak......but their immune systems must normally kick into gear and they are fine.

With the puppies I bred, they were hand raised because their mother had no milk. So their maternal antibodies were pretty much non existent. I under vaccinated them because I felt that with no maternal antibodies to interfere there was no reason for the initial vaccs not to work. I am only going to booster them at 12 months and then not again.

It's all been very enlightening to go through this, but also a lot of hard work!

Edited April 14, 2008 by Rysup

[Jed]

My experience with my own dogs and demodex is that it is not hereditary, but caused by stress. It may be hereditary, but it also can be caused by other factors, and not be hereditary.

Most other cases of localised demodex I have seen have occurred during a period of stress - illness, change of home, change of diet (particularly to a low quality food) or another stressful event.

[Rappie]

Somewhere I have written a long post about demodex.

The mites are on every dog and they are transferred from mum to pups soon after birth. The recommendation to desex entire bitches is twofold - first is the suspicion that the tendency to develop demodicosis might be inherited, so not neccessarily that all offspring WILL be affected but that there may be a common factor related to the immune system. Secondly is that the fluctuating hormone levels during the oestrus cycle can cause a degree of immune suppression that in an affected dog could be sufficient to cause a relapse.