Spaying German Shepherd

[GSDlover]

When should i spay my GSD puppy? She is appointed to be spayed at 6 months old but is this too early for a large breed like German Shepherds?

I have heard that spaying before the first heat cycle will decrease the chance of several diseases but may cause other problems such as increased hair growth, abnormal joint growth (too tall or too short), other diseases, etc.

There is so much conflicting information out there it's not funny.

What are people's experiences?

Thanks :rolleyes:

Edited April 10, 2008 by GSDlover

[jaegertheweim]

Based on this: http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html and my breeder's advice, I will be waiting till he is around 14 months to neuter my large breed pup

Edited April 10, 2008 by jaegertheweim

[aranyoz]

If you sincerely belive that desexing is best for yourself and your dog, then the best bet is to have it done when she is physically mature.

This link is for an article 'Determining the Best Age to Spay or Neuter', by a PHD vet for the AKC Canine Health Foundation and is well worth a read.

http://www.akcchf.org/pdfs/whitepapers/3-23-08DiscoveriesArticle.pdf

Edited April 10, 2008 by aranyoz

[GSDlover]

If you sincerely belive that desexing is best for yourself and your dog, then the best bet is to have it done when she is physically mature.

This link is for an article 'Determining the Best Age to Spay or Neuter', by a PHD vet for the AKC Canine Health Foundation and is well worth a read.

http://www.akcchf.org/pdfs/whitepapers/3-23-08DiscoveriesArticle.pdf

Hello,

I do believe that desexing is best for both of us but i want to make sure i do it at a time which will minimise any affect on her long-term health and growth. I don't know if these things are matually exclusive though...

Why do you think it is best to spay when she is physically mature?

Thank you for the article. It does say, though, that "spaying bitches after 6 months but before their first heat cycle is most beneficial."

Edited April 10, 2008 by GSDlover

[aranyoz]

If you sincerely belive that desexing is best for yourself and your dog, then the best bet is to have it done when she is physically mature.

This link is for an article 'Determining the Best Age to Spay or Neuter', by a PHD vet for the AKC Canine Health Foundation and is well worth a read.

http://www.akcchf.org/pdfs/whitepapers/3-23-08DiscoveriesArticle.pdf

Hello,

I do believe that desexing is best for both of us but i want to make sure i do it at a time which will minimise any affect on her long-term health and growth. I don't know if these things are matually exclusive though...

Why do you think it is best to spay when she is physically mature?

Thank you for the article. It does say, though, that "spaying bitches after 6 months but before their first heat cycle is most beneficial."

My concern is with the CCL rupture and interfering with the correct intended height of the animal as I have a very active gundog breed and would hate to feel responsible for her having an injury that might have been prevented. If you have any plans to undertake any dog sports at all this is something you should consider carefully.

In your case if you want to go with the advice from your article the first thing I would do is to check with her breeder when is the most likely age for her first season and then perhaps look at having it done about 4 weeks before then. Most medium to large breeds (not giant)will have reached their full height by around 10 - 11 months though they will still not have a mature body this comes later.

[morgan]

When desexing is done before physical maturity skeletal changes occur, which can cause problems, but desexing after the first heat increases the chance of mammary cancer. This risk goes up even higher if done after the second heat, so some people recommend desexing large breeds after the first heat to make sure the bitch is physically mature, but before the second so that the risk of mammary cancer isn't too much higher.

Speaking to your girl's breeder will give you an idea of when she can be expected to mature and give you a time frame for desexing. Be aware that desexing a bitch can lead to increased aggression issues (unlike the males which are usually a bit quieter after desexing) and you might need to be more careful with socialising and training to compensate, especially with a GSD.

Personally I would never desex a large breed without requesting some ovarian tissue to be left behind to manufacture some hormones to minimise the risk of spay incontinence, cancer and thyroid problems, but finding a vet who can and will do this is not easy.

[Diva]

Thnaks for the article Aranyoz, it's great to get some solid info.

[GSDlover]

If you sincerely belive that desexing is best for yourself and your dog, then the best bet is to have it done when she is physically mature.

This link is for an article 'Determining the Best Age to Spay or Neuter', by a PHD vet for the AKC Canine Health Foundation and is well worth a read.

http://www.akcchf.org/pdfs/whitepapers/3-23-08DiscoveriesArticle.pdf

Hello,

I do believe that desexing is best for both of us but i want to make sure i do it at a time which will minimise any affect on her long-term health and growth. I don't know if these things are matually exclusive though...

Why do you think it is best to spay when she is physically mature?

Thank you for the article. It does say, though, that "spaying bitches after 6 months but before their first heat cycle is most beneficial."

My concern is with the CCL rupture and interfering with the correct intended height of the animal as I have a very active gundog breed and would hate to feel responsible for her having an injury that might have been prevented. If you have any plans to undertake any dog sports at all this is something you should consider carefully.

In your case if you want to go with the advice from your article the first thing I would do is to check with her breeder when is the most likely age for her first season and then perhaps look at having it done about 4 weeks before then. Most medium to large breeds (not giant)will have reached their full height by around 10 - 11 months though they will still not have a mature body this comes later.

That is my concern. I want her to be her natural, intended height but i don't want to have an increased risk of cancer. Your advice to spay as late as possible seems sensible to me, but figuring out when her first heat cycle may be is a difficult task. I will consult my breeder.

[GSDlover]

When desexing is done before physical maturity skeletal changes occur, which can cause problems, but desexing after the first heat increases the chance of mammary cancer. This risk goes up even higher if done after the second heat, so some people recommend desexing large breeds after the first heat to make sure the bitch is physically mature, but before the second so that the risk of mammary cancer isn't too much higher.

Speaking to your girl's breeder will give you an idea of when she can be expected to mature and give you a time frame for desexing. Be aware that desexing a bitch can lead to increased aggression issues (unlike the males which are usually a bit quieter after desexing) and you might need to be more careful with socialising and training to compensate, especially with a GSD.

Personally I would never desex a large breed without requesting some ovarian tissue to be left behind to manufacture some hormones to minimise the risk of spay incontinence, cancer and thyroid problems, but finding a vet who can and will do this is not easy.

That sums my dilemma up pretty well.

Edited April 10, 2008 by GSDlover

[morgan]

That is my concern. I want her to be her natural, intended height but i don't want to have an increased risk of cancer. Your advice to spay as late as possible seems sensible to me, but figuring out when her first heat cycle may be is a difficult task. I will consult my breeder.

This is where you run into problems - spaying reduces the risks of mammary cancer (of which only half are serious) but increases the risks of most other forms of cancer as well as thyroid problems and incontinence. It doesn't even completely eliminate the risk of pyometra, the main problem with intact bitches.

Shame there hasn't been more research into the benefits of leaving an ovary or part of one to get some protective benefits of hormones without having the high risk of mammary cancer or full on season related behaviours.

[GSDlover]

morgan - you said that "some people recommend desexing large breeds after the first heat to make sure the bitch is physically mature, but before the second so that the risk of mammary cancer isn't too much higher."

Would you agree with them?

Also, do you know why they have increased aggression?

Edited April 10, 2008 by GSDlover

[morgan]

Can't really answer that, because I never, ever desex a bitch unless medically required - but I have the facilities to keep a bitch in heat totally secure, which a lot of people don't.

I recommend to puppy buyers to desex at around 18 mths, which is usually before the first heat in my breed. Occasionally a bitch will come in at 11 or 12 mths, but they usually have a fair amount of filling out and growing left to do, so aren't physically mature despite being capable of breeding. In these instances I simply offer to board the bitch for free to keep her safe from accidental matings. I have seen many bitches come into season as pups that are definitely not physically mature, so I suppose I do agree with desexing between first and second heats for those that are going to do it. I have pushed for hysterectomy instead of the more usual ovariohysterectomy for quite some time, ever since I found out that it can be done. No pyo or puppies, no spay incontinence or increased risk of cancer or aggression.

In over 30 years of keeping entire bitches I have only had 2 cases of mammary cancer, which were treated with desexing and a lumpectomy - both bitches lived to old age. As I usually have at least 8 or 9 bitches at a time of various breeds I consider myself lucky, but I also never vaccinate adults, to reduce toxins in the system, and avoid chemicals and drugs as much as possible to help keep them healthy.

As for the increased aggression, I can't remember the exact explanation, but it is related to female hormones having a normalising effect on temperament, whereas male hormones increase dog aggression. Of course when a bitch's hormones alter with coming in to season they often get a dose of PMS! Every single very aggressive bitch I've come across has been desexed. And of course some of the nicest, sweetest bitches have been too, so you can't generalise.

[GSDlover]

Hi morgan, thanks for all the detailed information.

Do you consider a hysterectomy a better alternative to a ovariohysterectomy at any early age? Do the same benefits apply at any early age?

[morgan]

A hysterectomy takes longer to perform than the standard ovariohysterectomy, which is not good, but early desexing proponents say that the very young bounce back much quicker from the op than older pups, so maybe removing all but one ovary, or part of one, wouldn't be too rough on littlies and still allow them some hormones to grow up more normally with.

Early desexing is done purely to prevent puppies, especially in breeds that are used by bybs and puppy farmers, so leaving some ovarian tissue in these pups would certainly give them more of a chance at a normal life whilst still being safe from becoming breeding machines or adding to the pound population. It still wouldn't suit the less responsible owner, as there may still be seasonal behaviour (but no bleeding or smell) which means the bitch will still have to be kept safe from getting out looking for boys a couple of weeks a year. This is unacceptable for some owners, but for those with prior experience of spay incontinence etc it would be a small price to pay for having a house pet without leakage issues. Of course there would still most likely be a slightly increased chance of mammary cancer, but with fewer hormones being made this should be reduced. More research needs to be done, but won't be while everyone just accepts the status quo and desexes on demand.

It really comes down to what suits the individual - but we all have the aim of protecting our pets from accidental breeding and as free of health issues as possible, so the more research that we all do the better we can look after our own.

[rose of tralee]

Very interesting

Vet science is no different to medicine; once a procedure becomes standard, it's just *easier* to apply that procedure across the board. Never mind that a trusted owner (one who clearly has a brain and is known to have the animal's welfare at the forefront) is asking for at least discussion in varying an aspect of the spay process i.e. later/ partial/ a qualified never.

Some extrapolations from human medicine may turn out to be relevant despite dogs not being little people, I see a few articles lately about increased incidence of dementia in women who lost ovaries before ?40.