poodlefan Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 How do you hold her head Rivkeh? in stacking? Yep, stacking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivkeh Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 How do you hold her head Rivkeh? in stacking? Yep, stacking? my forefinger doubled inwards and under the the hollow part of the jawbone pulling her head upwards, not sure how else to explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I understand..that's how I did it. What Sivvy seems to be saying is that the cause of the problem is one of your relationship with her (she's a tough cookie) rather than anything else. Is that right Siv? Do you think she understands when you want her to focus on you and work for you? If not, this may be one area you could work on. The only other thing I can think on is to seriously jackpot her (perhaps with a game or toy rather than food) for doing what you want. Will she stack at all? If you can get it even for 1 second... then end the exercise and reward. Have you put either the stacking or gaiting on cue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivvy Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 What Sivvy seems to be saying is that the cause of the problem is one of your relationship with her (she's a tough cookie) rather than anything else. Is that right Siv? My bad, I breed em tough Cant fool you PF Rory is more stubborn than mine here, but i guess I have trained mine at a young age so thats helped. She is a very independant bitch which is very head strong. She can be taught, I wore her down before she wore me down As I said Riv, if you think she needs the vet again do it for your own piece of mind, but when she done it to me its because she was determined to get her own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 What Sivvy seems to be saying is that the cause of the problem is one of your relationship with her (she's a tough cookie) rather than anything else. Is that right Siv? My bad, I breed em tough Cant fool you PF Rory is more stubborn than mine here, but i guess I have trained mine at a young age so thats helped. She is a very independant bitch which is very head strong. She can be taught, I wore her down before she wore me down As I said Riv, if you think she needs the vet again do it for your own piece of mind, but when she done it to me its because she was determined to get her own way. Frankly Sivvy, I'd rather a tough outgoing mini than a softer type.. you need that resiliance for dog sports and the show ring. I've got one of these (thanks JAG).. you push him and he'll push back. What JAG also bred into him was a very high desire to play and strong prey drive. Make something a game and he'll be into it. Rivkeh, does she like balls? One approach that might work is to teach her that doing what you want gets her what she wants - a reward. For Darce, doing anything with a ball throw at the end produces cooperation and enthusisam. Try bouncing a ball around her... gait her for a bit, release and throw the ball. Let us know if that makes a difference. For stacking.. have the ball. Into position for a very short time.. release and throw the ball (once she's off the table of course). What you should be able to build in her is lots of enthusisam and sparkle for the release.. and cooperation until she IS released. If she'll stack and chase then you put the two together and do stack, gait release and chase the ball. Then you put the ball on random reward.. sometimes she gets it afterwards, sometimes she doesn't. There's usually a spot at a show you can bounce the ball after the ring.. out the back somewhere. Darce will do anything for a ball.. wish I'd pinged to that earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 I love those 'tough' ones - find the 'on' button and you usually have a great mover in the ring. Keep at it My old girl took a while but once I found her motivation (roast chicken, only given on show days) boy, she was a 'look-at-me' show girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivkeh Posted April 5, 2008 Author Share Posted April 5, 2008 Thanks again PF What Sivvy seems to be saying is that the cause of the problem is one of your relationship with her (she's a tough cookie) rather than anything else. Is that right Siv? Yes, I need to show her much more that I'm the boss Do you think she understands when you want her to focus on you and work for you? If not, this may be one area you could work on. The only other thing I can think on is to seriously jackpot her (perhaps with a game or toy rather than food) for doing what you want. Yes she loves a game, but her recall is unreliable, maybe on a long lead until recall improves? Will she stack at all? If you can get it even for 1 second... then end the exercise and reward. Have you put either the stacking or gaiting on cue? She does stack, its just she pulls her head and body sideways against me, but she holds the stack quite well, and I'm working on getting her holding for longer and longer. Just not sure what you mean about the stacking and gaiting on cue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivkeh Posted April 5, 2008 Author Share Posted April 5, 2008 (edited) What Sivvy seems to be saying is that the cause of the problem is one of your relationship with her (she's a tough cookie) rather than anything else. Is that right Siv? My bad, I breed em tough Cant fool you PF Rory is more stubborn than mine here, but i guess I have trained mine at a young age so thats helped. She is a very independant bitch which is very head strong. She can be taught, I wore her down before she wore me down As I said Riv, if you think she needs the vet again do it for your own piece of mind, but when she done it to me its because she was determined to get her own way. Siv this morning did the continuous circles clockwise and anticlockwise. She pulled, coughed gagged, dry reached and glared at me when her head wasn't down with all that (by that I mean just staring back not taking her eyes off me). I kept going, but she wasn't even responding to my voice, she just fought me harder and harder. At one point she literally dug her heels in and pushed her front feet out so hard like putting the brakes on. I'm getting some fresh liver today to cook it and try that as bait. Edited April 5, 2008 by Rivkeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivkeh Posted April 5, 2008 Author Share Posted April 5, 2008 Frankly Sivvy, I'd rather a tough outgoing mini than a softer type.. you need that resiliance for dog sports and the show ring. I've got one of these (thanks JAG).. you push him and he'll push back. What JAG also bred into him was a very high desire to play and strong prey drive. Make something a game and he'll be into it. yes, I think if I can channel this headstrong attitude, she'll work very proudly in the ring, I have to find her 'spot' Rivkeh, does she like balls? One approach that might work is to teach her that doing what you want gets her what she wants - a reward. For Darce, doing anything with a ball throw at the end produces cooperation and enthusisam. Try bouncing a ball around her... gait her for a bit, release and throw the ball. Let us know if that makes a difference. Darce will do anything for a ball.. wish I'd pinged to that earlier. I'll try that, but on lead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivkeh Posted April 5, 2008 Author Share Posted April 5, 2008 I love those 'tough' ones - find the 'on' button and you usually have a great mover in the ring. Keep at it My old girl took a while but once I found her motivation (roast chicken, only given on show days) boy, she was a 'look-at-me' show girl. Yes, I would rather have a tough one than a shy retiring timid one any day, as you said I just have to find her "on" button thanks pebbles. I have tried roast chicken, roast lamb as well as dried liver, dried lamb as bait-she is very ho-hum, but maybe she needs to be quite hungry first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 I love those 'tough' ones - find the 'on' button and you usually have a great mover in the ring. Keep at it My old girl took a while but once I found her motivation (roast chicken, only given on show days) boy, she was a 'look-at-me' show girl. Yes, I would rather have a tough one than a shy retiring timid one any day, as you said I just have to find her "on" button thanks pebbles. I have tried roast chicken, roast lamb as well as dried liver, dried lamb as bait-she is very ho-hum, but maybe she needs to be quite hungry first. Maybe she simply doesn't have much of a food drive.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivvy Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 I would only feed the little bitch evenings. Make her starve during the day. She may work better for you. She is almost fully grown and got nice weight on her. Tell her breeder Sivvy ex mum is gonna come and kick her ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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