Rivkeh Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Posting for any advice here please I have been doing lead training for showing with my 5 1/2 month old mini poodle bitch Rory for the last 4-5 weeks. She is my first show dog, we have our first show in 2 weeks. Having lots of problems with leads. Have tried flat collar, martingdale x 2, fine chain, slip lead and a light nylon other type. Rory is gagging, pulling, coughing. I ended up taking her to the vet last week and they diagnosed a mild case of tonsilitis, she had a weeks course of antibiotics. The scenario goes---problems of pulling gagging, very strong head pulling down--I can feel this when I stack her too-- coughing and staring me down, when I growl at her. I had been thinking there was a problem with a lead, then getting a new one, she's great for half a day then this again. I'm getting to the point of despair with this, I'm firm with her and consistent, but now feeling like I'm just pulling her around most of the time. I do treat training and she is blase about that, also having trouble getting her to look up at me after up and back and stand. I took her to see our breeder who had to do some things for her, she says Rory is a very headstrong bitch, she saw a lot of proof of it ...any advice would be appreciated! Thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) I'll start where I always start with training issues: first eliminate any physical cause. Take her to a good dog chiro or a veterinary chiro and have her thoroughly checked out. It may be that it's uncomfortable to hold her head up in the way you want. You shouldn't be having to string her up to get her to gait well. It might also be worth having a vet look at her palate and throat. Why are you growling at her when you stack her? This may sound crazy but obedience people do it.. teach her to gait at your side WITHOUT the lead.. once she understands what you want, put the lead back on. Plenty of people teach their dogs to heel then add the lead afterwards. If treats aren't going it for her, will she work for a toy? You'd probably get more responses to this in the training forum. Edited April 4, 2008 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivvy Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Only cause I handled her the other day Im sure she is calling your bluff. Because she pulls it tickles her throat which causes her to gag. You know I put the collar under her throat and behind the ear. It worked for me. I personally would do alot of circle work, then do out and back. Everytime she pulls and gags I would go back to the circle. I find some dogs dont do it as much when they have a mate to learn from. She can see a play mate and follow so I would be curious if she is behind another dog if she would do it anymore. Like to see others opinions too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivvy Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) Why are you growling at her when you stack her? Cause she is naughty. Its more a baaah then a growl when she starts to pull, and when she stacks she wants to do what she wants to do and resists you holding onto her. Edited April 4, 2008 by Sivaro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Why are you growling at her when you stack her? Cause she is naughty. If more a baaah then a growl when she starts to pull, and when she stacks she wants to do what she wants to do and resists you holding onto her. And she's not interested in treats? This is a dog I'd be doing a lot of handling with.. massage etc. Can/will she free stack if lured into position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivkeh Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 Thanks PF I'll start where I always start with training issues: first eliminate any physical cause. Take her to a good dog chiro or a veterinary chiro and have her thoroughly checked out. It may be that it's uncomfortable to hold her head up in the way you want. You shouldn't be having to string her up to get her to gait well. I have done this Why are you growling at her when you stack her? I'm not, only when she's pulling down on the lead Plenty of people teach their dogs to heel then add the lead afterwards. If treats aren't going it for her, will she work for a toy? Yes am doing both treat and toy training--special toys just for lead training I also should add I give heaps and heaps of POSITIVE feedback to her--lots of love and praise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivkeh Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 And she's not interested in treats? This is a dog I'd be doing a lot of handling with.. massage etc. Can/will she free stack if lured into position? she is very blase with treats---this girl follows me everywhere, she gets LOADS of attention from me loves being handled, picked up cuddled smooched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Have you videoed gaiting her? Sivvy's seen her, I haven't so I'm just speculating. Does changing your pace change anything.. faster, slower? What happens if you don't put any pressure on the lead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivvy Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Why are you growling at her when you stack her? Cause she is naughty. If more a baaah then a growl when she starts to pull, and when she stacks she wants to do what she wants to do and resists you holding onto her. And she's not interested in treats? This is a dog I'd be doing a lot of handling with.. massage etc. Can/will she free stack if lured into position? She is more spoilt than anything, but is learning firm but not cruel now. She is relaxed when you stack her, but she decides to be the boss (which I never allow). She got the message a few times, but very very stubborn. I dont live near Riv so its hard for me to spend time with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 And she's not interested in treats? This is a dog I'd be doing a lot of handling with.. massage etc. Can/will she free stack if lured into position? she is very blase with treats---this girl follows me everywhere, she gets LOADS of attention from me loves being handled, picked up cuddled smooched So what's different about gaiting and stacking.. are you nervous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivkeh Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 Have you videoed gaiting her? Sivvy's seen her, I haven't so I'm just speculating.Does changing your pace change anything.. faster, slower? What happens if you don't put any pressure on the lead? with no pressure--for me she pulls sideways-crabs? and pulls head down. Changing pace she quickens doing the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Have you videoed gaiting her? Sivvy's seen her, I haven't so I'm just speculating.Does changing your pace change anything.. faster, slower? What happens if you don't put any pressure on the lead? with no pressure--for me she pulls sideways-crabs? and pulls head down. Changing pace she quickens doing the same thing What happens with no lead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivvy Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) Have you videoed gaiting her? Sivvy's seen her, I haven't so I'm just speculating.Does changing your pace change anything.. faster, slower? What happens if you don't put any pressure on the lead? She pokes and pulls when she doesnt want to do something. When i had a go with her, it was she that she wanted her own way. Then she moved nicely for me. She showed plenty of reach and drive, held her head up high & proud and pranced about like she did it all her young life. I think she is more stubborn and knows how to bluff. Riv just need a new method of training her, and Im dont know how to explain advice apart from what I done with her, and others may have better suggestions. Edited April 4, 2008 by Sivaro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivkeh Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 And she's not interested in treats? This is a dog I'd be doing a lot of handling with.. massage etc. Can/will she free stack if lured into position? she is very blase with treats---this girl follows me everywhere, she gets LOADS of attention from me loves being handled, picked up cuddled smooched So what's different about gaiting and stacking.. are you nervous? oh she still tries it stacking--pulls head so far sidewaysmy hand shakes to pull it back into place I'm not nervous when I'm working with her, but I am new to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 So you need to tick the WIFM box with this one. Do you use your voice to encourage her to trot with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivvy Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 This is Rory stacking for Rivkeh. She does it nicely, then she decides to pull her head away. She has a nice straight topline, I rubbed right across her back. Not twitching or any indication that she was sore. She was relaxed but didnt want to stay in that position. After she done it a few times she wasnt bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivkeh Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) So you need to tick the WIFM box with this one. Do you use your voice to encourage her to trot with you? YES constantly good girl c'mon Rory--etc high pitched as she loves that edit to say: she loves that but still carries on Edited April 4, 2008 by Rivkeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivkeh Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 stacking is not the problem shes not bad although still headstrong--it's the lead work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 How do you hold her head Rivkeh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivkeh Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 How do you hold her head Rivkeh? in stacking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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