Should We Discourage Play Growling?

[pennyw74]

Our puppy, a Cavalier who is now 17 weeks old play growls.

Sometimes, we'll get down to her level and play, she'll growl and bark a little and we'll do the same and chase her and she chases us. We do that until we (the pack leaders - my fiance and myself) decide the game is over. We then tell her the game is over, tell her she was a good girl, give her a scratch on the belly and a cuddle (to make up for the "angry" growling during the game) and then she goes back to playing with her toys or snuggling up on our lap.

Is it wrong to play this game with her at this stage?

Does this mean she'll try and be dominant as she gets older, too?

I guess, when we play now, nobody really "wins" so we haven't encouraged her to be dominant over us, it's just a game that starts when we say and finishes when we say.

Any thoughts?

I don't want a dog that growls if people come near her (she's so scary being a Cavalier anyway but you know what I mean...). People who don't know her later in life might not know that she's lovely and is only playing..

[sas]

Erny will probably pop in here to advise.

From memory when dogs growl in play such as tug or war it means that the challenge is on.

Being around a number of different puppies I know they have all been rather vocal in play.

To me as long as the dog isn't snarling and resource guarding, being vocal in play isn't terrible it's all part of who they are....a dog.

With Dante whatever we do with him we have to start off with the end result in mind as he's a bit of a terror so that means winning & teaching him something during the play session.

Dante was vocal in play as a puppy but not now, he is a death shake the toy kinda dog, where as my girl is very vocal in play, we don't have any issues with her.

When the game ends the game ends, so I just drop the toy and walk away.

Edited April 3, 2008 by sas

[Erny]

If it is all "play" then I don't have a problem with it. By the sounds of it you're doing the right things by finishing play on your terms and it's not as if puppy thinks all play is about this nor getting over the top. Provided your dog learns to understand there must be an "off switch", that there are 'boundaries' to this interaction (eg. no biting of skin .... even accidentally) and that it can only be started by you, it should be ok.

Pups do a lot of learning through "play". But it is the outcome that counts.

I used to do little 'play fights' with my (adult) RR when she was still with me. There was a bit of vocalisation in that too ( from both of us, I might add). Naught of it was in any way her challenging me nor rising to a challenge. But as far as her perception of me as being higher in the hierarchy stakes were concerned, there were definitely no issues there.

There are some people with some dogs whom I don't recommend this. One example is where the dog is already too boisterous and rough and where there are children added to the equation. But this example is one where the dog was never taught that "off switch" or that the game contained boundaries.

Erny will probably pop in here to advise.

Am I becoming predictable? :p

Edited to add some words. :D

Edited April 3, 2008 by Erny

[sas]

Erny will probably pop in here to advise.

Am I becoming predictable?

Edited to add some words.

LOL no more just hoping you would, us mere mortals can only assume with what we've experienced with our dogs so we need you LOL

[Lablover]

We then tell her the game is over, tell her she was a good girl, give her a scratch on the belly and a cuddle (to make up for the "angry" growling during the game)

Wondering, to make up........what?

Cavaliers are so cute. A friend has 17. Great little group. So "lap" able!!! (Compared to my labs, that is)

Edited April 4, 2008 by Lablover

[pennyw74]

We then tell her the game is over, tell her she was a good girl, give her a scratch on the belly and a cuddle (to make up for the "angry" growling during the game)

Wondering, to make up........what?

Cavaliers are so cute. A friend has 17. Great little group. So "lap" able!!! (Compared to my labs, that is)

Just being silly...to apologise for growling...that's all...for playing "mean".

[persephone]

Two things...

If you want to 'speak dog' to your pup, please make sure that you know what your growls etc. mean!!

The dog probably hears them very differently to you :rolleyes:

And.......... dogs dont' 'do' apology.

Good for you for stopping the games clearly!

[The Spotted Devil]

With a very, very OTT young puppy I never played rough with Zig or encouraged any growling (even in play). However, now that we have a strong understanding about who runs the show (i.e. me!) we have wonderful tug and growly games Sometimes, in the absolute height of his excitement and growling I'll calmly ask him to "give" me the toy, just to ensure the rules are clear - then he gets to continue with the tug game as a reward :rolleyes:

[Erny]

And.......... dogs dont' 'do' apology. :D

I read the 'apology' part as not intended by the OP to be taken literally. I see it as a way of showing pup that "now we want calm" behaviour. An 'off' switch, if you will. It seems a couple of people have interpreted differently?

Edited April 6, 2008 by Erny

[B-Q]

I play with Buster a lot, I tend to growl away, so does he. Mostly wrestling typw things, usually I'll throw in a drop or a sit, or I say "enough" and the game immediatley stops dead and we go back to what we were doing lol

[pennyw74]

And.......... dogs dont' 'do' apology. :rolleyes:

I read the 'apology' part as not intended by the OP to be taken literally. I see it as a way of showing pup that "now we want calm" behaviour. An 'off' switch, if you will. It seems a couple of people have interpreted differently?

Thanks Erny - exactly right. Also, if she doesn't understand what my growls mean and I shouldn't be doing it, does that mean when I talk to her and she has no clue what I'm saying when I tell her how much I love her and how gorgeous she is and when I just generally talk to her about my day, that I shouldn't be doing that, too? I don't want her to interpret it as me saying horrible things to her.

I play with Buster a lot, I tend to growl away, so does he. Mostly wrestling typw things, usually I'll throw in a drop or a sit, or I say "enough" and the game immediatley stops dead and we go back to what we were doing lol

Actually, I do that, too. If I feel she's getting a bit "rough", I start some training which she responds to very well. What you do sounds exactly the same as what I do.

Edited April 7, 2008 by pennyw74