Rough Play

[Wally]

Hi, I posted this on the golden retiever thread but since only one replied thought I might get a bigger audience here. Sorry to say this twice but I really am quite worried

We have 2 dogs - one small (7yr) one large (2yr). Our daughter brings her GR puppy (5mths) over regularly to play with our dogs and for us to mind when they go out. we probably see this gorgeous girl 3-4 times a week. She is a very boisterous baby and feels very much at home at our place. She plays very roughly with the other 2 dogs. I find it rather worrying.

The small dog (smaller than the pup these day) growls in a very nasty way when they fight together. It does not sound like a fun game. It sounds like a dog-fight without the blood and yelping. And I don't want to hear that! He will often have the pup by the neck and snarl as if any minute he'll tear her throat open. Just awful and I can't stand it so I separate them. The little dog now behaves like he is very tired of this puppy coming over and I usually separate them because she just wont leave the terrier alone and he snaps at her.

My big boy is just a pup himself really and he seems to love the GR. Sometimes I worry he is too big and too strong and might hurt her, though he never has. he'll knock her flying with his great paws and she'll go rolling away then bound back for more - her fangs bared and really looking like she wants to do some damage.

She'll stand on her hind legs up against him trying to mount - she's so dominant!

Sometimes it appears that the big dog is trying to avoid the pup, moving his head away from her so she cannot tear at his ears or grab him by the collar. She even goes for the back of his legs.

There is never any blood or yelping but I'm frightened that all this rough play will teach her to be savage. Also, I don't want my dogs to be so annoyed by this excited pup that they bite her and hurt her.

The GR is very obviously a very dominant girl! But she is also a visitor and I don't think she should behave like this. Am I being unrealistic for a 5 mth old puppy? When do you teach them manners?

Also, recently she bit her "Dad" in a very surprising gesture when he tried to take something from her, causing quite a bit of pain and a nasty blood-blister. I'm concerned that we're letting her exert her dominance too often

Any advice?

[Cosmolo]

Have they done any training (either themselves or with a trainer) with the puppy? The time to resolve any issues is now- she will not 'grow out of' any of these behaviours and its difficult to advise without knowing what they have done with her already

[Dogsfevr]

Mannners starts the day they come home.

Your little dog has every right not to enjoy a bositrous pups company & giving the little one time out or a safe area is a must.

You dont want your dog to become aggressive nor teach the pup to be that way either.

Playing with a pup should be in moderation due to them growing ,some pups just dont now when to stop & there is atime to casually step in & do a time out for all parties..

Dont presume she is dominat.

Dominance & lack of manners can look the same but not be the same.

Biting is totally unacceptable but one always must look at how the took the item.Some people dont give the dog the same respect in removing an item.It works both ways in ensuring both have an understanding of what is expected & allowed.

At present it sounds like a typical outgoing goldie baby that hasnt been taught the basics.

Its time for obedience & its time for you to not be so convient for baby sitting.

[Erny]

A big dog needs to learn how to appropriately play with a smaller, less robust dog. Just as you might teach a child to be gentle with a baby.

I would recommend that you get someone out to either confirm or deny your interpretation of your dogs' behaviours amongst each other. If aggression is apparent there is no mucking around with that as unless you know what to do and when to do it, aggression generally has a habit of escalating until one day there are tears. And what you see as being "dominant" may not necessarily be the case. Take some video footage of the dogs in the act of this activity, if you can. Typically, the dogs might not be sufficiently co-operative to exhibit the behaviour whilst the trainer/behaviourist is there.

I've seen some dogs have a wow of a time wrestling and playing rough, with all the play growls and play-act facial expressions that go along with that. It is a matter of looking at the big picture, not simply dissecting one signal or part of the dog's body language to properly gauge intent. I'd hate to say 'separate' the dogs if in fact they are having a good game and neither was feeling the slightest bit intimidated by the other or liable to injury. But similarly, one needs to know and understand that even if it is a 'game', this is how younger dogs explore and practice at 'flexing their muscles', learning along the way the mannerisms that depict and assert a higher hierarchy status. It is when two dogs each desire and believe in their worth as 'top dog' that hierarchy issues become problematic, if not injurious.

Remember that you should be perceived by the dogs as their overall leader - as such it is certainly your responsibility to protect them from harm. If you don't, they won't see you as being capable and so will do as they see fit to protect themselves and I'd suggest this is the case for the little one. Also, as Leader, you would have the respect necessary to be able to stop play when you recognise it as becoming too boisterous. When you think about it, this is what we do with kids when we see play getting too over the top.

[Erny]

Also, recently she bit her "Dad" in a very surprising gesture when he tried to take something from her, causing quite a bit of pain and a nasty blood-blister. I'm concerned that we're letting her exert her dominance too often

Any advice?

Whoops! Just re-read and caught this last bit.

IMO, you'd do well to get some one-on-one help if you haven't already. You want to nip (no pun intended) this one in the bud. I expect she figured out she was about to lose whatever it was that was being taken from her. It's natural behaviour for a dog, but completely unacceptable all the same. A good trainer/behaviourist will be able to go through all facets of the dog psych with you, giving you an understanding of how your dogs are thinking and why, as well as a plan to work on so that this type of behaviour is not further elicited.

Edited April 2, 2008 by Erny