Toilet Training And Barking

[Fly1170]

Hi

I am training our 11 week old puppy to toilet outside. He goes outside when I stand with him and wait and then I reward him but isn't asking or wanting to go outside to toilet yet. He seems to have sussed I get cross when he goes inside so now waits until I'm out of the room (even for 2 mins) to go inside. When I clap and say no and put him outside after this accident he goes crazy and barks and barks and barks (which I feel is also unacceptable). How do I solve the barking while being punished issue (I'm confident the toilet thing will come with time).

Thanks

Louise

[The Spotted Devil]

11 weeks? He's just a baby Your little puppy will take some months before he gets the idea of asking to go out. You MUST keep persisting - don't give him the chance to make a mistake indoors. Take him out at least every hour plus after waking, playing and eating and lots of praise when he toilets. Use a command when he toilets too. Don't leave him inside unsupervised - if you can't watch him for a few minutes, confine him to a smallish area on a hard floor with some bedding, water, toys, newspaper etc. Don't get cross when he toilets inside - he will simply end up toileting when you are not around. Instead, take puppy immediately outside, then pick up a rolled up newspaper and hit yourself over the head repeating: "I must watch my puppy! I must watch my puppy!" :D

I hope that helps - if you put the hard yards in now (and it IS hard work), you will have a wonderfully reliable house trained adult dog

[persephone]

Hi... there are people here who can explain this heaps better :p

Your pup is only a baby still...well done for getting him to toilet outside so far! :D

You may need to take him out more often...

I clap and say no and put him outside after this accident

When he goes indoors..do you actually reprimand him AS he is doing it?

To be effective, you MUST catch him in the act...at the very start if possible!!!!!!!!!! Ten seconds afterwards is too late

My recommendation would be, if you catch him in the act to just approach , scoop him up , and take him outside SILENTLY

Hopefully he finishes what he started OUTSIDE..and gets praised

shouting and handclapping would not be what I would use... the noise can startle a youngster, and also evoke the exact response you are getting.

Contain him to one room ,if you can...or attach him to a long lead around your waist..that way, you know the signs....

[persephone]

"SNAP", spotted devil..we posted at the same time

[The Spotted Devil]

"SNAP", spotted devil..we posted at the same time

What can I say....great minds.....

Love your new siggy Persephone :D

[Fly1170]

Hi

God this is so complicated. I was following the advice from our vet about the clapping and saying no, surely I can rely on my vet for the right advice! Maybe not.

I can't attach him to my waist it's just not practical so it looks like unless I can watch him he'll have to go outside. I do have a command outside and he goes when I say it. I snatch him up when he's doing/just gone inside so he knows what it's all about. I'm not expecting miracles I know it'll take time and I will persist and be patient. I keep hearing it's my fault if he goes inside and I accept that but was actually looking for advice about the barking when he goes outside. He's not an exclusive indoor dog he stays outside most of the day so do I just ignore him when he barks to come in and it's not able to happen (because I'm putting the children to bed and can't watch his every move to make sure he doesn't toilet inside)?

Thanks for the help so far

Louise

[The Spotted Devil]

It's ok - surprisingly many vets are very ignorant about animal behaviour......and I'm an animal scientist (behaviour/welfare) so I think I can get away with saying this

It can be very difficult to watch a puppy all the time.....and I don't even have kids!!! Can you set up an area in the kitchen or laundry with an old play pen? Otherwise, if you haven't got enough hard floor space, set it up on the carpet but with a tarp as the floor base. It will give your puppy some more contact with the family and also separate him from the kids, which is very important when he starts teething. I have a very, very intense young dog and the first 6 months was definitely the hardest.

Have you got plans to take puppy to obedience school? It will do you both the world of good - a well run training club will teach you a bucket load and also give puppy a lot to occupy his little brain....and settle that destructive stage that most puppies tend to go through.

Can I ask what breed?

ETA: With regards to the barking, definitely ignore it as it is attention seeking behaviour. However, remember that puppy has gone through a LOT of changes lately (leaving his litter mates etc) so practice putting puppy outside for a few minutes and then reward him for being quiet by allowing him to come inside. Whatever work you put in now will be rewarded ten fold down the track. Where are you located? Perhaps someone can recommend a good obedience club or social meet ups with other DOL members!

Edited March 31, 2008 by The Spotted Devil

[persephone]

Fly... I second The Spotted Devil's comment about some Vets and their (lack of ) knowledge of animal behaviour :D The are often not the best behaviourists.

Your pup barking to come in... I'm not sure..but he probably knows that EVENTUALLY he will be let in so he will continue to yip.

He needs to realise that YOU are the giver of all treasures!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU give the food

YOU decide when he is to be in

YOU dole out praise ONLY when he is being good

etc etc.

To that end...when you feed him... try this exercise...

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=64101

[Fly1170]

Thank you spotted devil for taking the time to patiently reply to me! He is a mini schnauzer and we are in the Nthern suburbs of Melb. I am starting puppy school with him next week but it's with the same vet that recommended the clap thing. I have the laundry with the tile floor that be suitable to put him in when I'm out of the room. It's a large room, we have already set it up as a safe play space with toys etc and his soft crate is in there (which we put him into to sleep at night). I could maybe put him in there everytime I'm out of the room. By 'the room' I am only talking about the kitchen/family room which has a wooden floor anyway so the messes aren't an issue in terms of cleaning up. He has no access to rooms outside this area in the house at all and that will always be the case even when he is fully trained (if that ever happens!). Thanks for the advice about the barking i will now bring him back in immediatly he stops barking to show him that the barking doesn't work.

Thanks again. I'll keep trying. You are so right it's very hard work much harder than I thought it would be. I so want to get it right and have a happy well behaved dog!

Edited to add thanks also Steve!

Edited March 31, 2008 by Fly1170

[The Spotted Devil]

My pleasure

I hope you've posted in the Schnauzer breed thread? Becks is an experienced breeder (in the UK) who frequents that thread and can give you breed specific advice.

The thing about space with your puppy, if you give puppy a large space, then he will just toilet when his little bladder is fit to bursting! However, if you limit the space and provide newspaper/puppy pads for when you can't watch puppy, you will increase your success rate. Put the toileting material away from his bedding and food bowls....also consider crate training - it's been my absolute savior with a very full on puppy (and he is very content in his crate) - there are likely to be heaps of threads on DOL but feel free to post if you're unsure.

As for puppy school....if you're not confident in your vet's program, consider contacting Cosmolo who posts on DOL - not sure what classes she runs and haven't used her services but have heard lots of good things ;)

Be patient and enjoy your puppy - they're not all cuteness and light, believe me but by golly it's worth it!!!!!!

[Baileys mum]

Hi fly1770, its hard work having a new puppy in the houshold isn't it. I know exactly what your going through as I just brought home my 9 week old Aussie terrier puppy last week & I've been run off my feet.

I actually bought a puppy play pen & have set it up in my family room, its been a life saver for me, as it is some where I can put her when I can't fully supervise her. I have a bed in their for her, some toys, water & a puppy training pad, which I can happily say she has been successfully using at the moment. I still try to put her outside every hour, but if she needs to go before this she uses the training pad. I also have a training pad at the outside sliding door for when she is playing around the kitchen/family room area (I do not allow her in other parts of the house yet ) & she sometimes uses it, but I have to admit she has had her fair share of accidents aswell I usually just say to her AH! AH! OUTSIDE & I put her out for 10 minutes. I have 2 adult indoor dogs too & she always follows them outside too when they go to the toilet. And I always give her lots of praise when she does finally go. The main thing I have to work on at the moment with her is that she is weeing her bed while she sleeps in her crate, but that's another story ;)

I think its all about having patience & perseverence, at the end of the day they are just babies after all. I really can't help you with the barking issue, other than your puppy is just rebelling when you tell him off. I would maybe just turn my back on him & ignore him until he calms down, He's just probably doing it for attention.

Are you going to bring him to puppy school, he's probably getting to the age to start some formal training, my baby is starting in a weeks time.

Anyway I wish your all the luck in the world with your puppy, just remember you are not on your own, there is many others going through exactly the same thing that your going through. You can also PM anytime if you want, if you ever need to discuss puppy issues.

Take care

Nicole.