Leaving Puppies Outside 22hrs A Day

[Klattsy]

OK. So we have had our puppies for about 4-5 months and thanks to everyones help they are now toilet trained and reasonably well behaved.

Although an incident arose over the past few days...

We knew Jezy (bitsa) could chew but now she has started on the laundry wall where we keep them at night (10pm-6:30am). We leave toys in there for her and also is in there with Charlie (our pure cocker). Jezy has destroyed every toy, every bed, mats, water tank fittings, hoses, shoes...but recently she has started chewing on the wall and pine sleepers outside.

The chewing on the wall resulted in us deciding that at 7 odd months it is time for them to be sleeping outside. Sooooooo we made this:

Colourbond and pine. About 2.5 x 1.8m coverage.

Our concern is that I think they will prefer to sleep here where they do at the moment while they are outside:

and Charlie likes to dig up dirt and sleep in that instead (especially under the water tank where it is cool:

To go under the shelter we have 1 large kennel, a plastic dog bed, a frame of a shade cloth bed and lots of destroyed shade cloths

We are probably going to get another kennel under there. But I am wondering a few things.

1. They are used to being outside all day and then inside watching TV from about 8-9pm and then in the laundry until morning. I think they are going to struggle being outside. As it is they bang on the screen door and whimper. Does this call for tough love or a gradual weaning down period.

2. What can I line the bottom of kennels/platic beds with, or is there a suitable alternative bedding for Jezy who claws/chews through EVERYTHING? Some kind of "super tough" bedding? I'm thinking about screwing MDF to the shade cloth bed frame instead of buying a new shade cloth. The cloth lasts about 2 days before Jezy has chewed/clawed through it.

3. Should i feed them in the shelter to get them used to it?

4. Anything I can do to stop them digging through the rocks, plastic and down into the dirt? Sometimes they go 20cm deep! There is nothing burried there though. They are ruining my yard with dirt!!! We are probably going to put more rock on top to try and clean the yard up.

5. Charlie likes to bark at everything and anything. My concern is that if they are outside all night he may bark at 5-6AM and cause us some grief with the neigbours. Is this likely or once he is used to being out there do dogs normally settle down during this time of the day?

Sorry about the long post. Your opinions are appreciated!

Mark & Suzie.

[SammyZ]

OMG look at that wall! It seems that they have so much pent up energy!!! Have you tried walking them in the morning to get rid of some of this? How often are they exercised?

Sorry can't really help with the other stuff - just wishing you luck.

Bec.

Edited March 29, 2008 by becboo

[gareth]

sorry if I have missed somehting, but why do you only spend two hours a day with your dogs? and, how much of that is exercise, training, bonding, good quality time, etc?

[Fordogs]

:D

Your puppy sure made a mess of the wall.

Why don't you try crating Jezy at night ?

I also have a puppy that will chew anything I give her to sleep on, every morning she would have pieces of

blanket, sacking or matting in her poo, I was sure she was going to get a blockage. She now sleeps on

a pallet with a piece of ply nailed on top of it I even tried her with a piece of carpet on top of the ply but she

chewed on that, so I remove it . Yes I feel guilty because my other dogs have a trampolines to sleep on but she

just can't be trusted to have a bed.

[Paganman]

I reckon your dogs are bored silly and thats why theyre chewing, digging and barking. Id say that they could do with more attention more exercise and more mental stimulation. Theyre both young active dogs and you carnt expect them to stay locked in a yard or a laundry 22 hours a day with nothing to do but just sit around. Boredom makes some dogs noisy and destructive and I reckon thats whats happening here and as they become adults theyll probably get worse if you dont spend more time with them and give them a good run everyday and do some training with them.

[stormie]

I wonder if they are digging down to the dirt because it is much softer to lie on?

Is there anywhere in the yard they can lay down that isn't on the stones? Some big meaty bones could help occupy them when they are outside, but i'm not sure they would want to lay down on all those stones to eat them!

Trampoline beds would be great - keeps them up off the ground and are also pretty comfy. We have ones here with steel frames and really tough strong trampoline material.

I think the main thing though that's going to help you is providing them with a lot more physical and mental simulation. Remember in the wild, dogs travel far distances to hunt for the food, then eat, then sleep. Your dogs don't seem to have much of an outlet for their frustration so are venting their pent up energy on chewing/digging etc. The fact that the chewing takes place at night is a fair indication that not much sleeping is taking place. Is it possible to walk them twice a day? Maybe a nice physical walk to a park where you can then do some mental stimulation with training and games?

I play lots of games with my 7month old that require him to use his brain. I find a game of 'seek the toy' is great. I make him sit and stay whilst I hid his toy out of sight then use the word 'seek' to free him to find it. It not only helps with his training and commands, but also really tires his brain out being so focused for so long.

[The Spotted Devil]

I reckon your dogs are bored silly and thats why theyre chewing, digging and barking. Id say that they could do with more attention more exercise and more mental stimulation. Theyre both young active dogs and you carnt expect them to stay locked in a yard or a laundry 22 hours a day with nothing to do but just sit around. Boredom makes some dogs noisy and destructive and I reckon thats whats happening here and as they become adults theyll probably get worse if you dont spend more time with them and give them a good run everyday and do some training with them.

Have to agree with the above. My Dally's destructive tendencies are inversely proportional to the amount of mental stimulation he has had that day. Using caution as he is growing, he is now getting, per week, around 3 free runs at the beach, 4-5 short walks which nearly always involve a stop at a park for some serious formal obedience training, daily clicker training at home plus learning games when he is restless (e.g. hide and seek with a favourite toy, playing fetch/tug as a reward for performing a 'trick'). In addition, all his food has to be earned.....dry food in puzzle cubes/balls/kongs/via clicker training and high value treats (cooked chicken when out plus RMBs at home) when we are training. The little rascal is always delighted to snuggle in his bed at night so his brain can recover :D

[persephone]

A few things quickly.

1) Dogs like your two are now teens...full of energy and a desire to explore the world!!

Without a couple of LONG , on-lead 'concentrate on what you're doing' walks a day, and a variation of other activity..different toys..large bones, they WILL look to what is readily available to fulfil their needs :D

2) Dogs will dig holes to sleep in.

Dogs are curved..they also like feeling comfortable

They therefore dig in sand to make a soft and contoured bed!

our working dogs sleep in holes of their design most of the time

3) Well done on making the shelter.

Are you in an area which is warm all year?

The reason I ask is that, at dog-height, there is NO barrier to a cold draft, if you have them ..... and in a bed, or on a trampoline, it may get very cool!

When you are making doggy things..think of only being a couple of feet high, and work from there

4) I have the horrible suspicion that the barking will increase...for several reasons.

The dogs will be outdoors...smelling,hearing, and seeing things.

They will be awake and looking for something to do

They will probably play together and get excited..maybe yapping,barking.

All I can suggest is that you work very hard on tiring them out,making sure they have plenty of MENTAL stimulation, somehwere soft to sleep....maybe put in a sandpit for them?

plenty of chewy /interactive toys... bones,kongs, bike tyres/soccerballs....although running around on that gravel all the time would be not really comfortable on their feet....

having two youngsters is hard work...I wish you luck.

[kaywoman68]

Sorry to hear about your accident. One of my dogs chewed the wall too but he got over it.

1. They are used to being outside all day and then inside watching TV from about 8-9pm and then in the laundry until morning. I think they are going to struggle being outside. As it is they bang on the screen door and whimper. Does this call for tough love or a gradual weaning down period.

5. Charlie likes to bark at everything and anything. My concern is that if they are outside all night he may bark at 5-6AM and cause us some grief with the neigbours. Is this likely or once he is used to being out there do dogs normally settle down during this time of the day?

The two quotes above are from the same post (1st post) but it says 2 different things. Do they sleep INSIDE or OUTSIDE???? Also, you mention they are inside watching TV from 8-9pm? That's one hour. What is done in the second hour?

They are teenagers and would be very active and curious at this age. You really need to make sure they are mentally and physically stimulated. Jezy, being a big dog, really needs a lot of exercise to tire herself out. Charlie would need reasonable exercise.

What I don't understand is why they are by themselves for 22 hours a day. Surely you are not away from home for 14 hours a day? (assuming there's about 8 hours allocated to sleep in those 22 hours). How many hours are you home a day? How often do they get walks? 2 hours really isn't much interaction time!!!! I am pretty positive you do NOT devote the the 2 hours in those 24 hours entirely to the dogs. Can you let them inside for some interaction time?

Unfortunately.....until you can make sure they are mentally and physically stimulated, your yard will remain full of dirt When they are bored, they will find themselves things to entertain themselves with......

Cockers love human companionship and interaction. Charlie would be wanting to come inside and spending time with you. I know it's not possible when you're at work but he would want to come in as soon as he knows you are home. I would think it would be the same for Jezy (wanting to spend time with you).

Edited March 30, 2008 by kaywoman68

[shellbyville]

Are you going to put a floor in the kennel? If you did put in a timber floor off the ground, you could put trampoline beds in there for them to sleep on, or just put in old blankets, that if they chew is no big deal. I have one youngster here at the moment, that chews her bed all the time. So I took it out, went to St. Vinnies and bought some old blankets and put them in her kennel and she still does pull them and chew them, but they are cheap and replaceable. When she gets a bit older and out of her chewing phase she will get her bed back. :D

I have a few dogs and mine can also get very bored, but i try to spend some time with each of them, everyday, with a bit of training, playing and a short walk. It seems to do the trick and they are not terribly destructive, they also get some time inside with us (in turns) and they seem very happy to go into their kennels at night.

Edited March 30, 2008 by shellbyville

[Klattsy]

Hey thanks for all the advice! Let me try to clarify a few things:

sorry if I have missed somehting, but why do you only spend two hours a day with your dogs? and, how much of that is exercise, training, bonding, good quality time, etc?]

My wife and myself work from 7-5 each day. We spend an hour with them after work which includes running laps around the yard, chasing the neighbours dogs and playing fetch, then my wife and I have dinner then they are with us inside until bed. When the title says "22hrs a day" thats not 22 un-accompanied hours, just 22 hrs not inside the house! :D

Why don't you try crating Jezy at night ?

We though about this, but really, the dogs should be spending the nights outside, especially as Jezy sheds everywhere. Plus how would it go with one dog in a crate and one not?

reckon your dogs are bored silly and thats why theyre chewing, digging and barking. Id say that they could do with more attention more exercise and more mental stimulation. Theyre both young active dogs and you carnt expect them to stay locked in a yard or a laundry 22 hours a day with nothing to do but just sit around. Boredom makes some dogs noisy and destructive and I reckon thats whats happening here and as they become adults theyll probably get worse if you dont spend more time with them and give them a good run everyday and do some training with them.

When not at home, the dogs have plenty of toys around the yard left for them. Unfortunately these are decreasing in numbers as Jezy destroys them or losses interest in them. Basically, if it can't be destroyed, she won't play with it. We have tried bones/pigs ears ect but we find that Jezy will scoff hers and Charlie will just guard his which leads to fights so we have given up leaving these type of products. Instead we had treat balls which entertained them till they got the treats out and then even these where taken apart by Jezy.

We would spend a good amount of time with the dogs during the week and this is amplified on weekends.

I wonder if they are digging down to the dirt because it is much softer to lie on?

Is there anywhere in the yard they can lay down that isn't on the stones?

I think this may be the case as well, as it is softer and cooler. However I am searching for some alternative options that can't be destroyed. As I write I just went out to check and a piece of carpet we lined one kennel with has been torn apart.

The reason I ask is that, at dog-height, there is NO barrier to a cold draft, if you have them ..... and in a bed, or on a trampoline, it may get very cool!

When you are making doggy things..think of only being a couple of feet high, and work from there

The kennel has high legs which will be chopped shortly. We weren't sure how much it would sink into the rocks so we left them long, plus the beds that are going in there have high sides. Trampoline beds...these last 2 days at best. Jezy will eat the material from the sides so we put vicks or Chew Stop on it, then she just clawed through the middle of the bed. Blankets/towles are going to be the best bet I think.

The two quotes above are from the same post (1st post) but it says 2 different things. Do they sleep INSIDE or OUTSIDE???? Also, you mention they are inside watching TV from 8-9pm? That's one hour. What is done in the second hour?

As of yesterday they where sleeping inside. Now they will be outside to sleep. Should I just leave them out there overnight straight off or maybe have them spend 3 hours out there, then 6, then all night...???

What I don't understand is why they are by themselves for 22 hours a day. Surely you are not away from home for 14 hours a day? (assuming there's about 8 hours allocated to sleep in those 22 hours). How many hours are you home a day? How often do they get walks? 2 hours really isn't much interaction time!!!! I am pretty positive you do NOT devote the the 2 hours in those 24 hours entirely to the dogs. Can you let them inside for some interaction time?

As above, we work at least 10 hours a day. We would spend about 30 mins in the morning feeding, cleaning and little play with them then when we return home we will spend another hour with them. Then inside for our shower/dinner and then we would let them in for about 2 hours where we will play or watch TV with them. From here they would then be taken to the laundry for bed. The idea now is to only have them inside for that 2 hrs, then instead of going to the laundry, they would be outside for the night. Weekends we spend alot more time with them, 3 sessions per day usually. Some weekends they are out playing at the in laws all day.

I think one solution is to tire them out. I may increase the intensity of sessions with the dogs. However I am still searching for a good solution to keep them entertained while we are at work. We almost bought 2 x Kong Extremes today, but I think that Jezy will lose intrest as soon as she realizes she can't destroy it.

Thanks everybody for your opinions. It gives me plenty to think about!

Mark & Suzie.

[KOE]

they are puppies and are doing what puppies do

My Vizsla ate the whole door frame off a rental house then started on the back door

why cause she wanted to get in :D

[BC]

Playing in the yard is not going to mentally stimulate or tire out most dogs. You need to spend that time taking them for a good solid walk instead. That way they are out of the yard, puts their senses into action and then they would most likely come home and have a rest instead of being frustrated stuck in the yard all day.

I would look at some real training to stimulate their minds. Toys just lying around the yard are not enough, and I doubt very much any dogs would just sit there and play with their toys during the day themselves.

The reason they are being the way they are is because of you, (no offence intended) they are just being normal young dogs.

I also agree that crating them inside of a night will be a better option, and do this for both of them, not just one. Sleeping outside is not going to stop the problem, it will now just happen in the garden instead of the laundry wall unless some adjustments are made

[Monah]

Sorry, in your last post you mentioned having them in for 2 hours in the evenings, after your dinner/showers, then putting them back outside for bed. Is this what you're thinking of doing? I'm afraid with two young dogs, only having a couple of hours a day of company, they will just get worse and worse. My neighbours cockers ate their whole laundry!! so I know what you mean. But they were also alone all day in a run until 6pm. and then 'put to bed' at 9.30pm. so hardly any human company. It's heartbreaking.

We have 2 young dogs and if not supervised they will also seek and destroy, although nothing like what you have been through. I 'swim' them for about 2 hours per day and the viz also has an hour bike run, in between they have beach runs, flyball, agility, obedience and are with me all the time I'm home, and usually come out with us too. Other than that they are crated. Yes we do work all day too. I visit during breaks, luckily I work for myself

You appear to already have realised that they need a lot more exercise and training. I hate to tell you but this will probably be the case ie exercise etc. for many years to come.

If poss on weekends, maybe you could try having them with you and busy, all weekend, instead of 3 sessions. How long are these sessions? They really must get terribly bored. I find with ours, on particularly busy energetic days, they are still tired the day after.

Hope it all works out for you and your doggies. They are lovely and I imagine very bright and clever. Good luckxxx :D

The only thing constructive I can think of is having a dogwalker walk them while you are at work every day as it sounds like you are both unlikely to be able to change your timetable/rosters etc. Unfortuantely (or not :D ) Dogs, like children, change lives.

[Monah]

Sorry, in your last post you mentioned having them in for 2 hours in the evenings, after your dinner/showers, then putting them back outside for bed. Is this what you're thinking of doing? I'm afraid with two young dogs, only having a couple of hours a day of company, they will just get worse and worse. My neighbours cockers ate their whole laundry!! so I know what you mean. But they were also alone all day in a run until 6pm. and then 'put to bed' at 9.30pm. so hardly any human company. It's heartbreaking.

We have 2 young dogs and if not supervised they will also seek and destroy, although nothing like what you have been through. I 'swim' them for about 2 hours per day and the viz also has an hour bike run, in between they have beach runs, flyball, agility, obedience and are with me all the time I'm home, and usually come out with us too. Other than that they are crated. Yes we do work all day too. I visit during breaks, luckily I work for myself

You appear to already have realised that they need a lot more exercise and training. I hate to tell you but this will probably be the case ie exercise etc. for many years to come.

If poss on weekends, maybe you could try having them with you and busy, all weekend, instead of 3 sessions. How long are these sessions? They really must get terribly bored. I find with ours, on particularly busy energetic days, they are still tired the day after.

Hope it all works out for you and your doggies. They are lovely and I imagine very bright and clever. Good luckxxx :D

The only thing constructive I can think of is having a dogwalker walk them while you are at work every day as it sounds like you are both unlikely to be able to change your timetable/rosters etc. Unfortuantely (or not :D ) Dogs, like children, change lives.

[Baileys mum]

Playing in the yard is not going to mentally stimulate or tire out most dogs. You need to spend that time taking them for a good solid walk instead. That way they are out of the yard, puts their senses into action and then they would most likely come home and have a rest instead of being frustrated stuck in the yard all day.

I would look at some real training to stimulate their minds. Toys just lying around the yard are not enough, and I doubt very much any dogs would just sit there and play with their toys during the day themselves.

The reason they are being the way they are is because of you, (no offence intended) they are just being normal young dogs.

I also agree that crating them inside of a night will be a better option, and do this for both of them, not just one. Sleeping outside is not going to stop the problem, it will now just happen in the garden instead of the laundry wall unless some adjustments are made

I also agree to crate training them BOTH, not just the one or maybe purchase a puppy play pen,or a dog run where you could both of their beds & some toys. This will stop them from getting up to mischief.I also agree about the long walk. My dogs have a mountain of toys to play with, but if they didn't get their dailey walk they would be unbearable to live with. To be honest with you, if my OH or myself worked 10 hours a day I personally wouldn't even own a dog ( no offence ) IMO dogs need alot of your time to get the best out of them.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but that is my honest opinion.

[Monah]

Playing in the yard is not going to mentally stimulate or tire out most dogs. You need to spend that time taking them for a good solid walk instead. That way they are out of the yard, puts their senses into action and then they would most likely come home and have a rest instead of being frustrated stuck in the yard all day.

I would look at some real training to stimulate their minds. Toys just lying around the yard are not enough, and I doubt very much any dogs would just sit there and play with their toys during the day themselves.

The reason they are being the way they are is because of you, (no offence intended) they are just being normal young dogs.

I also agree that crating them inside of a night will be a better option, and do this for both of them, not just one. Sleeping outside is not going to stop the problem, it will now just happen in the garden instead of the laundry wall unless some adjustments are made :D

I also agree to crate training them BOTH, not just the one or maybe purchase a puppy play pen,or a dog run where you could both of their beds & some toys. This will stop them from getting up to mischief.I also agree about the long walk. My dogs have a mountain of toys to play with, but if they didn't get their dailey walk they would be unbearable to live with. To be honest with you, if my OH or myself worked 10 hours a day I personally wouldn't even own a dog ( no offence ) IMO dogs need alot of your time to get the best out of them.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but that is my honest opinion.

Me too. I agree, I'm just fed up with getting flamed(chicken ). It's too late now, but older rescues or breeder re homing would probably have worked out without any problems. But, they are lovely dogs and if the OP is willing to put time and effort in, they will be great pets. Our dogs adore their crates, and I'm always up early (5am) to make sure they have around 3 to 4 hours with me before work, even if I'm really tired and just throw a ball or something. xxx

[Luke GSP]

I would crate them or what we did with our laundry was to line the walls and doors up to about 1.2M high with clear Perspex. It's not cheap but it wipes off easily (should your dog vomit or fire unspeakable from the other end) it also stops your dogs claws or teeth eating/scraping the walls, doors or woodwork. Several people have commented on what a good idea they thought it was as you hardly notice it and it does keep your walls clean and tidy.

BUT! ABOVE ALL. exercise, exercise, exercise! Tired dogs don't chew, bark or hastle you.

On another note, I noticed that you mentioned that you ate as if when you eat your dogs are left outside. Personally I believe that it is a good thing for you to eat in front of your dog and they must behave then once you are finnihed then they can have their dinner IMO.

[persephone]

Klattsy...

may I suggest that the 'doing laps around the yard, chasing the neighbour's dog, etc' which you do with your pups may NOT be the most effective at putting them in a CALM, RELAXED state of mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I repeat, what these two need is a LOT of WALKING on leash..so they HAVE to focus and concentrate....therefore they are mentally and physically exhausted!!!

Games are fine..but as a reward for good behaviour, or as a fill-in.

Their 'main diet' of exercise should be in the form of WORK

The more you hype them up around the house, the more they learn that YOu approve of this wild behaviour, and that it is the norm ...

IMO, anyway :D

Not meaning to sound as if I'm lecturing, just trying to explain how it looks to me .

[Becky in Oz]

Did anyone ask, I have skimmed, whether the dry wall will affect the dogs or not? I would think that the dry wall would not be the best in a dog's body?

Also and this is for my interest... would that shelter be hot during a warm, sunny day? It looks beautiful to me.

The dogs sound like they have good parents, by the way. They also sound like normal dogs and welcome to DOL. Your thread is educating me, too.