Obedience Trials

[oceanaussi]

Hello there,

also I already have a 9-year-old pound dog who excelled in obedience (overseas) I have a question regarding my new (and first) pedigreed one:

I've started puppy school this morning with my little Wei boy who's nearly 11 weeks of age. After that I will do the normal obedience classes and I'd like to do competitive obedience trails with him later on. So, when you do trials when can he start? After finishing all 4 levels of obedience school? I mean the C.C.D requirements are similar to the level 2 achievements in obedience class.

Could anyone please enlighten me?

[Natsu chan]

They can't trial until they're 6 months, but in all honesty in my experience most dogs aren't mentally mature enough to trial at that age.

Here's a link to the rules for you:

www.geocities.com/vicobedience/ankcobedrules.pdf

But yes six months is the minimum age.

[MrsD]

They can't trial until they're 6 months, but in all honesty in my experience most dogs aren't mentally mature enough to trial at that age.

Here's a link to the rules for you:

www.geocities.com/vicobedience/ankcobedrules.pdf

But yes six months is the minimum age.

I agree most dogs are not mentally ready for trialling at 6 months old. You also find that quite a few that do start early tend to burn out quickly & don't tend to still be around when the dogs are older.

To the OP, I'm not sure if you are asking about the age or what class they can start in, with the new rules you can now do CCD before you do Novice/CD or you can choose not to & go straight to Novice. Just remember that regardless of whether you do CCD or not, in Qld you need to do a Novice Sweepstakes before you can enter Novice at an obedience trial.

HTH

[dogdude]

Yes, as stated the age restriction is 6 months. When you enter depends on what you want to acheive.

Obedience school level has no relevance to trialling rules. You just need to be a paid up member of your state controlling body (CCCQ for Q/Land I think?).

You do of course need to learn somewhere though. If trialling really is your final goal then I would suggest that you bypass dog school and find yourself a trialling mentor either at a trial or at a club, and ask if you can tag allong to their personal training sessions. Most won't mind one bit.

There are many people who enter trials out there............and there are the TRIALLERS!

Make sure you latch onto a TRIALLER ;)

By starting off this way you will avoid stuffing up your first dog and avoid wasting hundreds of hours retraining your dog to get anywhere near a high score.

You will know when your dog is ready to trial when he meets close to your perfect picture in every exercise.

Don't just make up the numbers,..... you owe it to your dog after all that training!!!!!!!

Edited April 2, 2008 by dogdude

[oceanaussi]

Thanks very much everyone! Sorry about the spelling mistake - English isn't my first language.

So he has to be at least 6 months old before he starts trialling. I see how he goes, I want to wait a bit longer as I really want him to excell in RT and Tracking but maybe later I can enter him in Obedience comps.

I always thought C.C.D. is the first level, than C.D. then C.D.X., then U.D. and then U.D.X.?

@dogdude: I'm going to an obedience school which conducts a lot of trials. Do I really need a trialler??? How much does this normally cost? How do I find them?

Like I said I've competed with my other dog in obedience overseas but she was a bit older when she started as back then here in Australia 'mutts' weren't allowed to compete so I took her back home and she gained titles in obedience, agility and Schutzhund.

Not sure if I understand what you mean with "Don't just make up the numbers,..... you owe it to your dog after all that training!!!!!!!"????

[The Spotted Devil]

I suspect what dogdude means is not to enter before your dog is well and truly ready and you have complete confidence in him - even if it's an important show e.g. breed/group specialty show. I think that laying solid foundations takes the longest and most patience.....especially with a Dally

[oceanaussi]

Ah! Well, the showing we'll probaly start a bit early (Toowoomba Royal we're coming). Mainly so I learn and Quen gets used to it. But yes, with things like obedince etc I'll wait until he's ready. But in regards to tracking and RT - I can see the fire in his eyes!

[MrsD]

I always thought C.C.D. is the first level, than C.D. then C.D.X., then U.D. and then U.D.X.?

That's correct, however CCD is optional & you can go straight into CD (Novice) if you feel your dog is ready for it. But as I mentioned before, here in Qld you do need to do a novice sweepstakes before you compete in a novice trial whether you have chosen to do CCD or not.

If you look in your Dog World from the CCCQ (if you are a member) you will see some clubs hold sweepstakes - they are run exactly the same as trials, only differences are that the judges are on the Trainee Judges panel & you only need to get 150 points to qualify. Once you get 1 qualifier of 150 points you are able to enter normal obedience trials at novice level.

As far as I know Qld is the only state to have sweepstakes & you only need to do it to progress into Novice - not any of the other classes.

What club are you attending? If they are an affiliated CCCQ club & hold ther own trials, what DogDude is suggesting is finding someone who's training methods you like & using them as a mentor to help you to get to the level you want to get to.

[oceanaussi]

That's correct, however CCD is optional & you can go straight into CD (Novice) if you feel your dog is ready for it. But as I mentioned before, here in Qld you do need to do a novice sweepstakes before you compete in a novice trial whether you have chosen to do CCD or not.

If you look in your Dog World from the CCCQ (if you are a member) you will see some clubs hold sweepstakes - they are run exactly the same as trials, only differences are that the judges are on the Trainee Judges panel & you only need to get 150 points to qualify. Once you get 1 qualifier of 150 points you are able to enter normal obedience trials at novice level.

As far as I know Qld is the only state to have sweepstakes & you only need to do it to progress into Novice - not any of the other classes.

What club are you attending? If they are an affiliated CCCQ club & hold ther own trials, what DogDude is suggesting is finding someone who's training methods you like & using them as a mentor to help you to get to the level you want to get to.

So if I do C.C.D. I don't need to do the novice sweepstake? I like to start from scratch, so I'd like to do my C.C.D.

Currently I'm attenting Teamwork Dog Obedience for the puppy classes. But once we've finished with puppy school we'll change to the Pine Rivers Dog Obedience Club. I'm also a member of the Gundog and tracking Club which conducts trials as well.

[dogdude]

Hi Oceanaussi

As Spotted Devil said (re making up the numbers).

Obedience clubs (even ones that trial) are not necessarily the best place to learn trialling.

They are usually torn between keeping the average jo bloe happy with keeping things simple for pet purposes, and the very precise requirements and finer points of trialling.

The student then finds themselves at the crossroads after basic training and they then find that most of the exercises then have to be broken down and retaught to be competitive trialling dogs. There is also the the big and common problem of many clubs where by the time you get to trialling level, you have been taught 4 or five different methods off 4 different instructors. Great for you but your dog dosn't know if he is coming or going.

A huge disadvantage of club training is that it is usually an hour long class. That is just way far too long to have a dog working with any interest. 10 minutes maximum is what is required. If you really must learn in a class, sit on the side lines with a note pad. You may feel stupid but your dog will be much better for it.

Experienced triallers generally only take their new dogs to class for short socialising or distraction training. Most won't bore their dog by working an hour long class. It is important to maintain a dogs drive for trialling purposes. Drive is the key element to nearly all of the top scoring trialling dogs. It is up to the handler to promote and maintain it in their dogs to continue to be successfull.

Clubs are however a starting point to finding a knowledgable trialling guru. By going to all your local trials, you will be able to work out who are the successfull ones. From there its just a matter of introducing yourself and stroke their egos a bit and beg to tag along to their training sessions. Most will be only too pleased to be someones guru, and it won't cost you a cent.

Human nature is very predictable. People love the idea of telling others what to do. Especially if you are worshipping them at the same time.

P.S: You are correct in saying that CCD, CD and CDX go traditionally in that order. You can however bypass CCD and go straight into CD (Novice) if you choose to. As MrsDog said though, in Q/L you need to enter Novice Sweepstakes? I am not familiar with that though. I suppose it is some kind of formal test to see if you are up to trialling level?

ETA: Oops, sorry MrsD. I took too long to post this.

Edited March 24, 2008 by dogdude

[MrsD]

That's correct, however CCD is optional & you can go straight into CD (Novice) if you feel your dog is ready for it. But as I mentioned before, here in Qld you do need to do a novice sweepstakes before you compete in a novice trial whether you have chosen to do CCD or not.

If you look in your Dog World from the CCCQ (if you are a member) you will see some clubs hold sweepstakes - they are run exactly the same as trials, only differences are that the judges are on the Trainee Judges panel & you only need to get 150 points to qualify. Once you get 1 qualifier of 150 points you are able to enter normal obedience trials at novice level.

As far as I know Qld is the only state to have sweepstakes & you only need to do it to progress into Novice - not any of the other classes.

What club are you attending? If they are an affiliated CCCQ club & hold ther own trials, what DogDude is suggesting is finding someone who's training methods you like & using them as a mentor to help you to get to the level you want to get to.

So if I do C.C.D. I don't need to do the novice sweepstake? I like to start from scratch, so I'd like to do my C.C.D.

Currently I'm attenting Teamwork Dog Obedience for the puppy classes. But once we've finished with puppy school we'll change to the Pine Rivers Dog Obedience Club. I'm also a member of the Gundog and tracking Club which conducts trials as well.

You need to do the novice sweepstakes whether or not you do CCD. So here in Qld it goes CCD, novice sweepstakes, novice, open UD, UDX or just novice sweepstakes, novice, open UD, UDX.

I don't know of anyone at Pine Rivers off the top of my head who you could use as a mentor, sorry! I've been out of the trial ring too long .

DogDudes advice in his last post is excellent .

ETA - the sweepstakes thing is technically a test to see if you are ready for Novice (you have to get 150 points), but it is mostly so that the trainee judges have somewhere to actually practice their judging while they are training.

Edited March 24, 2008 by MrsD

[J...]

I agree with what dogdude has said - I took my dog through all the puppy preschool into puppy class and all the way through to class 4. That was when I didn't know any better.

I am now faced with a dog who needs extensive retraining for competition heeling because she's been bored out of her brain at obedience classes, and her version of the word "heel" means to switch off and follow the lead for nearly an hour, because that is exactly what she's been taught in class.

This is a dog who will and can do a lot of the open work and even some UD work (sans heeling obviously) because she sees it as great fun, but I don't know if she'll ever see the inside of a novice ring because of the amount of work she'll need for retraining heeling.

[MrsD]

but I don't know if she'll ever see the inside of a novice ring because of the amount of work she'll need for retraining heeling.

I know, but FP have you tried instead of doing it like heeling with the lead in a class etc do it offlead & play the throw the food game with her? I saw it on a DVD that PAX lent me - I can't remember the name of the lady but she does some great work with the dogs & they don't even know they are doing heelwork .

I think training a new behaviour ie working at heel offlead & doing it as play would be alot easier than breaking down barriers if she has put them in place already doing heeling being dragged around at the end of the lead.

(I hope this makes sense ;) )

ETA - the lady's name is Joanna Hill .

Edited March 24, 2008 by MrsD

[J...]

but I don't know if she'll ever see the inside of a novice ring because of the amount of work she'll need for retraining heeling.

I know, but FP have you tried instead of doing it like heeling with the lead in a class etc do it offlead & play the throw the food game with her? I saw it on a DVD that PAX lent me - I can't remember the name of the lady but she does some great work with the dogs & they don't even know they are doing heelwork .

I think training a new behaviour ie working at heel offlead & doing it as play would be alot easier than breaking down barriers if she has put them in place already doing heeling being dragged around at the end of the lead.

(I hope this makes sense )

ETA - the lady's name is Joanna Hill .

Yep, I use a ball and she gives me excellent focus and some lovely heeling under distraction. But its a long way from there to the novice ring, and my focus for this year is agility as that is what we both love. Not saying we'll never get there, but it will take a lot of work retraining a bloody good dog who shouldn't have needed to be retrained in the first place

[PAX]

I just wanted to add that most of the problems we have in heelwork is that we think it is boring. If we think that way how can we ever get attittude and animation from our dogs?

All fun things must come from heelwork and you can use that on the agiltiy field.

Happy Heeling.

[dogdude]

One of the most common things I hear from the inexperienced people nearing trialling level at dog club is that they think their dog will be bored with obedience trialling.

.....And the way the way they are taught.............any wonder!!!!!!

The catch 22 though is that their handlers have to learn somewhere. I don't think I have ever met an obedience trialler that did not own up to stuffing up their first dog.

[helen]

I think clubs are starting to change the way they do heeling. I recently did a beginners obedience class at Geelong Obedience Dog Club. The heeling practice was done in our own little space and in short spurts only with attention being the first objective.

[JulesP]

Not all clubs spend an hour doing heeling either. We only do short bursts at my club, I almost think we need to do more!

I like heeling, it is like dancing! My dogs seem to like it too

[MrsD]

I just wanted to add that most of the problems we have in heelwork is that we think it is boring. If we think that way how can we ever get attittude and animation from our dogs?

All fun things must come from heelwork and you can use that on the agiltiy field.

Happy Heeling.

:D ;) :D :thumbsup:

[J...]

While I appreciate the suggestions Pax and MrsD, I have actually sought information on this from a highly experienced and respected behaviouralist who is familiar with me and my dog. :D

Dogdude - completely agree! Sadly I think its the ones who aren't interested to start with and then decide that the trialling game might be something worth doing are the ones who struggle the most.

Edited to add: Helen & JulesP - great to see that that change is starting to happen

Edited March 25, 2008 by feralpup