Clomicalm?

[mita]

My tiny, 5 kg tibetan spaniel was put on Clomicalm about 3 weeks back.

Since her tibbie 'sister' died last September, Angel has never bounced back to normal.

At first, she lay watching doors & gates waiting for her 'sister' to return.

Then she transferred that continual watching onto me. When I went out, she would howl like a banshee.

Not even being in the company of other people would stop it.....she'd howl & pace.

The vet behaviourist tried all sorts of things.....including that pheronome diffuser thingy. Nothing's worked.....including all the behaviour mod thingies for separation anxiety.

The vet said she's different in that this is an intense obsessiveness.

No....getting another dog is not the answer, the vet wants to reduce the obsessiveness first.

So she went on Clomicalm, nearly 3 weeks ago. Two 5 mg tablets a day.

Everyone I know whose dog has been on Clomicalm, said it zapped them out. Really sedated them. Well, Angel might as well be eating sugar pills. If you met her, there's no sign of any sedation. And the howling behaviour has modified a little bit.....but not much.

Does Clomicalm take longer than 3 weeks to really kick in?

Or do they make dogs very tough in Tibet & the Clomicalm just bounces off this little dog?

[Dogsfevr]

I was always under the impression that clomicalm was a 6 month process of retraining.

We board a dog here who has been on it for 3 yrs & does nothing at all.

Do you want another dog or are you waiting for the drugs to work??

[Flaves]

I dont believe it works on all cases.

It didnt with my cat nor my friends dog.

in fact ini her dog it made her worse

[mita]

I was always under the impression that clomicalm was a 6 month process of retraining.

We board a dog here who has been on it for 3 yrs & does nothing at all.

Do you want another dog or are you waiting for the drugs to work??

We will get another dog....but the behaviourist vet wants reduce the obsessiveness first. Because it doesn't matter if another dog is with her....she still howls.

Yes, retraining is going along with the Clomicalm. All the things required for separation anxiety. The vet said the Clomicalm hoses down the anxiety so that the retraining is more like to 'take'.

Well, the Clomicalm might as well be sugar pills so far.....& the retraining has modified the behaviour a tiny bit, but it's still a problem. If I'm not home, there's still howling & pacing.

The strange thing is that everyone else I know whos dog's been on Clomicalm has taken the dog off it, because it became so heavily sedated. With Angel, it's like water off a duck's back.

[Poodle Mum]

It takes up to 5-6weeks for anti-anxiety meds to reach theraputic(sp?)blood levels. Is not supposed to zap them out....but relax & decrease anxiety. It sounds like you are heading in the right direction if the howling has slowed.......Keep up the good work!

It can be a long process

[Staff'n'Toller]

What Poodle Mum said.

If she is not sedated then that is good, your Vet Behaviourist is obviously using the correct dosage for weight.

It's not a tranquiliser- it's not supposed to make them tired, google the drug name, they use it in humans too.

Mel.

[haven]

I had Loki on Clomicalm and wasn't all that impressed, it did seem to take a slight edge of his anxiety but it wasn't a great deal of improvement. He eventually ended up coming off them cold turkey with absolutely no noticable change in behaviour (not what I would have done, it was after he had been missing for almost a week and therefore missed many doses), but that was after a great deal of behaviour modification and training had taken place.

[bommy]

Mita

We have used clomicalm,

Its meant to just take the edge of the anxiety the dog is feeling so that the behavioral retraining you are undertaking at the same time has effect.

Jacq

[mita]

Thanks for the replies, folks.

This problem is puzzling me. I've had a dog with separation anxiety before & this seems different.

This little dog seems more obsessive than anxious. She never has....& still doesn't...seem to have an anxious bone in her body.

Totally confident in all situations....like when meeting big dogs. She does small dog testing for the Greyhound Adoption Program. Not a twinge of worry even when she met Wally who was as big as a Mac truck.

Since this problem has come on, she remains totally unfazed by everything else.....except when she can't keep me in sight.

Few days ago, she was totally confident when a DOLer called in with 2 gorgeous Border Collies. As usual, she sorted things for getting on with the male BC....when many small dogs would go into a screaming fit.

But thanks to your advice, I'll keep on keeping on.

I wonder, tho', if there are differenct medications for obsessiveness than there are for anxiety?

Maybe I should ask the vet that?

Edited March 23, 2008 by mita

[CP*]

I think the word 'calm' is a bit of a misonomer - it should read clomiconfident. It is meant to give them confidence - so that they can cope with the seperation. When my boy was on it he was over confident when he approached other dogs. He was pretty sociable already but he often forgot the social niceties when approaching other dogs while he was on the clomicalm and would sometimes even nick off on me. I noticed his over confidence with other dogs within a couple of weeks but it took about 4 weeks for his obsessive seperation anxiety behaviour to abate. Fortunately I didnt need to leave him on it for long - just long enough make implementing behaviour modification exercises easier.

Good luck - I can understand how hard it must be for your little one, she must be so worried another member of her pack might disappear too.

[mita]

Caro, thank you for that reply. You've supported something that I've noticed.

Angel has never lacked confidence....she has heaps of it. Which is why she's always done such a good job with 'small dog' testing the greyhounds, doesn't matter how big they are.

That remained the same even after her grieving problem for Gracie came on. She still did the greyhound testing confidently....& was great with the male Border Collie the other day.

Her problem seems more like obsessiveness. For a couple of months after Gracie died, she'd lie & watch at doorways and gates, expecting Gracie to come back in. In the vet's examination room, she'd lie watching the door, expecting Gracie to come in, too.

Then she changed her focus to me.....that I should be within sight all the time. So it's obesessiveness.

Maybe Clomicalm is not the medication for her.

I found this listing of meds for behaviour problems. Anti-depressants are mentioned. I wonder if they might more fit the problem my little dog has. She grieved terribly for Gracie.

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings...4&O=Generic

Edited March 25, 2008 by mita

[kimzy]

I did have success on clomicalm. When our family moved to a rural area our recently adopted dog (a very shy Kelpie cross) had basically a freak out. It was just to much stimulus for her, everything new caused anxiety and fearful reactions. It did not sedate her at all, it just sort of chilled her out a little with the anxiety probelm . While she was on it we slowly exposed her to alot of the new things that she was afraid of such as the wheelbarrow, peacocks a tractor ect... it worked for us, she is fine now and was only on the clomicalm for 6 months, I think. It was several years ago. For us it just kind of gave us the window we needed to help her adjust and build confidence.

[stormie]

It worked for our retriever. She had sep. anxiety that got worse as she got older and became more senile. Took a few weeks to take full effect, but after a few months on it she was great -much more relaxed. Not long later we stopped the pills and she stayed the same

[GoldiesRgr8Poodles2]

Im the biggest supporter of clomicalm. Ive had My standard poodle on it since she was around 6 months old. Ive combined the meds with training and at 14 months am really seeing improvement. Age, training and medication is great for her. You can tell if she has missed a dose. Its been her saving grace.

Its not going to work for all dogs and can tske time to start effecting them. Best thing I can suggest is get back into behavioural modification training again while she is medicated. The two things together should have a better effect. The meds just seem to stop 10thousand thoughts in their heads and lets them be able to settle.

Thats my experience.

eta: She has never seemed zonked out on the meds.