Insulinoma?

[Azurite]

Hi, my 13 year old boy has just been diagnosed with insulinoma and I was wondering if anyone here has had experience with this type of cancer? I did a search but didn’t get any results. I understand it is considered rare (not rare enough apparently). If anyone would care to share their experiences/advice I’d greatly appreciate it?

[lucknow]

This may help but unfortunately all the information is pretty generalised and likely repeats what your vet has already told you.

http://www.vetspecialists.co.uk/06_Animal_...Insulinoma.html

I have seen a few dogs diagnosed but we always referred out to treat so can't pass on anything helpful there sorry.

Best advice I can give atm is to write down all questions as they occur to you and take them with you when you go back to the vet. While you are there again write down all information given - it is much too hard to be able to process everything said and something very important may be overlooked.

Keep going back to your vet with any and all questions if necessary until you are able to make an informed decision re treatment.

Good luck

[Azurite]

Thanks Lucknow. That web page has some good information. We're leaning towards medical therapy rather than surgery at the moment due to the risks and the fact that in most cases the relief is only temporary, he also hasn't done well being sedated/anaethatised in the past and I worry that surgery might squander or shorten any time or quality of life he may have left.

[Staffyluv]

Thanks Lucknow. That web page has some good information. We're leaning towards medical therapy rather than surgery at the moment due to the risks and the fact that in most cases the relief is only temporary, he also hasn't done well being sedated/anaethatised in the past and I worry that surgery might squander or shorten any time or quality of life he may have left.

Most people don't know but there are a couple of different types of anaesthetic used by vets. There is the general one that is used all the time and another that is a bit more expensive but dogs tend to wake up better and have less issues with it - sorry I cannot remember the name but if you ask your vet about it, they can help. My boy has MCT and he needed to go under a few times and we used the more expensive one, he was great coming out of it and was not sick once.

Have you considered holistic therapy at all. Ollie was not given the best diagnosis (no clear margins) but we treated with chemo and holistic therapy and he is still here more than 2.5 years later and doing very well (the cancer has been in remission for more than 18 months now).

Some ideas to treat cancer in dogs are in the palliative care thread at the top of the health section.

Increase or start them on 1000mg fish oil per day as well as vitamin C (500mg per 10kg of weight). Change of diet (gradually so you don't upset their tummy) to a diet based around fats and proteins with veges for carbs and fibre.

Ollie eats lean or organic veal/turkey/beef/chicken/roo/venison and he is favouring sweet potato and zucchini at the moment as veges. Raw meaty bones are good as well to keep their jaws and teeth healthy.

Make sure you ask for all the implications of having chemo - Chemo damaged our lads thyroid gland and now he needs to take drugs for life to help. He also has stomach issues which could be from the chemo or the cancer.

Wishing you and your dog the best

Please keep us updated

Jodie

[Azurite]

Thanks for the advice Staffluv . I had a bit of a read of your thread on Ollie, I'm glad to hear he is doing well now.

I understand there are different anaesthesias, but I'm just so nervous about the prospect of putting him under. Last time he was just given a sedative, enough for a 15 kg dog (he's 25 kg, or was before the hypoglycemia) and he was an absolute mess for 24 hours, he couldn't even stand up and barely raise his head. Plus there is the added worry of his age, hypoglycemia and the pancreatitis that would result from the operation. If I felt the benefits outweighed the risks, I might be more inclinded to try the surgery. I don't actually know what sedative they used on him last time, we've actually changed vets in the midst of all this because we were so disgusted with the way they treated us when we had an emergency trip to the vet one night (you'd think it was probono ). But I suppose he may react differently to an anaesthetic than a sedative too.

I don't think chemo has much effect on this type of cancer unfortunately, but I'll bare that in mind if it comes up.

The holistic therapy is something I've just started looking into and is definetly something I intend to pursue. He's easy enough to get a fish capsule into, he just eats the whole thing no worries. He's currently on a sort of BARF/hybrid diet. He gets human grade minces (beef, chicken, turkey, roo etc.) wth his veggies mixed in. He also gets chicken necks or wings and a few times a week a chicken frame or lamp flap as a replacement for the mince mix. He gets about 1/2 cup of Eaglepack holistic biscuits as well, but I've been reading a few things about grains "feeding the cancer" so I've been looking into trying out one of the grain free foods maybe Orijen.

Where abouts can I purchase a vitamin C supplement?

[JackieW]

Hi there

My boy Jamie had an insulinoma removed last year. He was 10 1/2 at the time and has recovered really well. Despite the fact that they said they got it all and that his other organs were clear, the prognosis is only 2 years. For follow up we're doing 6 monthly ultrasounds (fine last time) and 2-3 monthly glucose checks (a bit low but not too bad). He's not on any medication. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have but only check in on the weekends.

[Azurite]

Hi JackieW. Did Jamie get pancreatitis as a result of the surgery and was there a large tumour visible in ultrasounds prior to the surgery? No tumours were visible in my boy Raffles' ultrasound which makes me suspect there's multiple miniscule tumours.

Have you found, certain foods or a particular feeding regime have helped to keep Jamie's blood glucose stable.

I hope Jamie continues to do well.

[Staffyluv]

You can get Vit C powder if you want to use it in your dogs dinner or just use normal human grade Vit C from the chemist (that is what I use).

Vit C is a great tonic for dogs. Once when Ollie was ill while he was on chemo another DOLer suggested I ask the vet to give it intraveneously (sp). He did and Ollie recovered so much better - he was like a pup again for a while... Ollie also had chinese herbs and five mushroom drops each day while he was on chemo to support his immune system. And another two immune support tablets from the holistic vet.

Perhaps radiation might be better than chemo for this type of cancer (Sorry, just grabbing at straws here as I really don't know anything about this type of cancer - will have to look it up)...

Where are you? If you are in Sydney, I can recommend a wonderful holistic surgery - All Natural Vet Care, they have a web site, just google it. We are in Canberra and they have dealt with us via our vet, the oncologist and phone. Wonderful vets, with the very best interest of the dogs at heart.

[Azurite]

Thanks again Staffyluv, I will look into the Vit C supplement.

I think most of the medical therapy is more directed at controlling the blood sugar and preventing hypoglycemia/seizures than actually attacking the tumour/s. Insulinoma is basically reverse diabetes (too much insulin not enough glucose) caused by insulin secreting tumour/s. Corticosteroids (prednisolone) seem to be the most widely used treatment. Chemo seems to be a last resort. At this stage we are having reasonable success controlling his blood sugar with diet and honey for when he has seizures, so he hopefully won't need any medication for a little while yet.

I'm not near any capital cities, so my choice is a little more limited, but thanks for the recommendation, I'll check out All Natural Vet Care and maybe shoot them off an e-mail.

[JackieW]

Hi there. No, no pancreatitis. They suggested bland food for a couple of days (one of the vets wasn't all that impressed when I said I fed raw :p ) and then back on his normal diet. I am a little more careful about feeding fatty bones than I used to be. No large tumours, but there were some small ones. There was nothing showing up in his follow up ultrasound (phew).

Advice re feeding is to feed more meals. I was already feeding him twice a day (three times during the week as I leave the dogs with bones when I go to work), so I've now added a meal at bedtime (I hold back some of his dinner). Plus as he lost weight before the op and then while he was in hospital, I've increased the amount. He's very happy about that .

The vet I saw last time said if the tumour comes back they can treat it with corticosteroids. Personally if it was operable and Jamie's health was otherwise OK I'd prefer an operation. I had a nasty experience with steroids with Jamie's predecessor.

All I'm really doing is the follow up ultrasounds and blood tests, plus the extra meal/s. And no more vaccinations.

>Hi JackieW. Did Jamie get pancreatitis as a result of the surgery and was there a large tumour visible in ultrasounds prior to the surgery? No tumours were visible in my boy Raffles' ultrasound which makes me suspect there's multiple miniscule tumours.

Have you found, certain foods or a particular feeding regime have helped to keep Jamie's blood glucose stable.

I hope Jamie continues to do well.

[Azurite]

Thanks for the reply JackieW. It's a tough choice to make, I'm still second guessing myself as to whether I should run the risk of the surgery or go with the corticosteroids, unfortunately the surgery is useless if you wait until things really get bad. It's a catch-22 kind of situation. Do you mind if I ask what your experience was with the steroids?

What blood glucose readings does Jamie usually get? Raffles' are constantly around 2.8.

[JackieW]

My previous dog Giz went blind seemingly overnight (but in hindsight her sight had been going for a short while). I can't remember what the possible cause was that the vet thought treating with steroids might fix, but it didn't. What it did was make her blow up like a balloon, develop a huge appetite (to the extent of eating her own poo) and drink huge amounts of water. When she went off the steroids she became incontinent which was treated with human medicine (which I had to blow up her nostril with a straw). That was fun, because she slept on my bed, so I had to set the alarm to take her out for a wee in the night. Eventually though the incontinence was cured and she lost all the weight and got back to normal.

The prognosis even with successful surgery isn't great, 2 years I was told. It's not good for humans either, it seems to be a particularly bad sort of cancer to get.

Jamie was 3.6 at his last check. My vet wasn't too worried about that result as it was after fasting. He did suggest check ups every 2-3 months, and more meals. As does the doggy naturopath. The trick is to avoid the highs and lows. One vet didn't think giving honey if Jamie got a bit wobbly was a very good idea but another thought it was OK. Touch wood though, he's going along quite well, no wobbly spells. And he's never had seizures, unlike Raffles, poor boy. The specialist asked if he'd had any seizures when I took him along for his ultrasound.

We went to the specialist centre at Albany Creek and have seen 3 of the vets there, including the chap my vet says is 'the' oncology person. Might be worth a chat with him? http://www.bvsc.com.au/www/index.php?optio...2&Itemid=32 There's also a lady vet at UQ vet school who is supposed to be cluey on insulinomas.

[Azurite]

That's awful! I've heard about the increased appetite and weight gain but not the blindness and incontinence.

Thanks for the link, I'll send an e-mail and see if they can give me any advice.

[JackieW]

The blindness wasn't caused by the steroids, the steroids were tried to treat the blindness. The only thing about her being blind was that she couldn't see me sneaking up to blow stuff up her nose. She hated that!

Another thing you might need to do is watch what you feed Raffles. Some things feed cancer. Actually a really good book about cancer is general is The Answer to Cancer by Sharma & ors. It goes into diet, stress etc. Written from an ayurvedic perspective which makes a lot of sense to me.

[Azurite]

Oh right! Sorry I can't read today! I don't blame poor Giz for not being impressed! What an unpleasant way to have to take your medicine!

I've read a few websites that suggest that grains and carbs are bad for a dog with cancer as the tumour/s just metabolise them and grow, so I've swapped to a grain free kibble (Orijen) is this what you mean? His main meal is BARF, fortunately my vet doesn't seem to take an issue (they actually have a very limited stock of dry foods). Most vets around here at the very least recommend bones.

Thanks again, I appreciate it!