paulNrita Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Hi, we have a 10 month old female Kelpie (Coco). We have done the puppy pre-school and the subsequent program with her. There is one thing that we are having problems with: whenever we take her for a walk and she sees another dog approaching she drops to the ground and wont budge. I'm not sure whether this is submissive thing or whether its an attempt to round them up. Onve the other dog gets to her she is OK. She gets up and says hello. I've tried tugging at the lead, dragging her along in the dust, treats, toys, exciting talk etc., but she only has eyes for the other dog. So at the moment we just stop and go through the the motions (ie. stop, drop to the ground until they get to us, say hello, wag the tail and then say goodbye) for each dog that we pass. It's a little bit embarrassing, and usually gets a bit of a laugh from the other dogs owners. Any ideas as to how to get her out of this habit, or is it just a Kelpie thing? Regards Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacee Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Sounds like a submissive thing with Coco.. She is not sure about other dogs and by dropping to the ground she is not inviting trouble. You could try socialising her a bit more if possible and maybe offer treats to get her to move towards another friendly dog. We have working kelpies and none would drop to the ground, they prefer to play with everyone and everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulNrita Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 Hi ozk9s, where we walk (Warrandyte river) we are passing dogs every minute or two, so she is getting plenty of socializing. I've tried treats, however she has never really been a food oriented dog. It could be a submissive thing, but she seems fine once the dog gets to her (ie. tries to play etc). Regards Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Is it possible that she has learnt that dropping means she will get to play with the dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulNrita Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 Hi, the reason I was thinking that it may be a Kelpie thing, is because when she first spots the other dog she'll crouch down low in a stalking type of walk, then once they get to about 20meters away she'll hit the ground. I'm guessing it is just a habit she's gotten into. The question is, how do we get her out of this habit, or is it something she will grow out of? Regards Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Q Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Maybe everytime she starts her stalking thing just turn around and walk in the other direction. If it is because she's learned thats how she gets to play with other dogs it might snap her out of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Paul have you had this Dog around Sheep at all? Is this Dog kept by itself? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulNrita Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 Hi Tonymc, she's never been around sheep. She is the only dog in the family. Regards Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I think you will find that this behaviour is a Kelpie thing. They are "eye" dogs and what she is doing is what she would do if she saw a flock of sheep, goats, rabbits or anything that can potentially be rounded up (or hunted). When she spots them she will switch into a working mode as she is young and things tempt her. The reason she won't move is that she is trying to hold them in her sights and block them from passing her. If you watch working dogs working on stock or playing with other dogs, it is a normal thing for them to do. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I agree with Dasha (Kaos does it when playing with Diesel, and will pounce on him), however it is not the best thing to do to other dogs, some could take offence to being 'eyed'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 she only has eyes for sounds as if her instincts are kicking in, and she is "showing Eye" . This is desirable trait in a lot of stock working dogs!pups showing eye are often very much sought after!!! We have a kelpie X .. when we first got her, as an adult..she exhibited very strong "Eye"... she used it to great effect with the sheep..but could NOT understand why it was that the horse , or the guinea fowl didn't come under her control when she worked SO hard with her gaze ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Hi Paul It's partly a Kelpie thing but I'm afraid it sounds like a pattern behaviour in your dog....somewhat of a spontaneous reaction when she sees another dog. Best to teach her an alternative behaviour to break her from this habit. Hire yourself a good trainer to help you to do this. Oh, and get her in with some sheep to satisfy that herding instinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulNrita Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 Hi Kelpie-i, living in the Eastern suburbs of Melbourne, there aren't a lot of sheep around . Is there anywhere close by that we could take her? Regards Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageDiva Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Hi, While I can't comment on the working dog side of things, I do know that my Stafford does a similar thing on walks when he sees a dog walking towards us. He will stop, look at the dog and then drop onto the ground, where he'd stay if I let him. Like your dog, he gets up and is happy to meet the other dog when it comes up to us. My theory has always been that my dog does this to ensure he DOES get to meet the other dog. It's simply like he's waiting, and trying to get me to stop and wait too. He tends to be a bit too full-on for many dogs we meet, so maybe the dropping is his attempt to try something different in order to get what he wants (which is meeting another dog). I rarely allow him to do this anymore, especially as most of the time the dog was on the other side of the road and there's was no point to his waiting! Sometimes I simply keep walking quickly along, saying "Quick, quick!" which he understands. I now know what he'll do when he sees another dog, so I don't let him get to the dropping stage at all if I can help it. Not sure if this was any help at all, as our breeds are so different and they're probably both doing what they're doing for different reasons, but I just thought I'd share my story. And as for the sheep, I know that the Koolie Club meet regularly in country Victoria for sheep herding (beginners and other working dog breeds welcome). Check out this link: http://www.australian-koolies.info/meetings.html They have a herding weekend in Elmore (two hours drive from Melbourne) coming up in early April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacee Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 (edited) Unless she is trying to "work/round up" other dog when he/she approaches. I would still feel this is a submissive thing more than a kelpie using his/her 'eye'. We have bred and trained working kelpies for over 20yrs. The only time I ever have them hit the deck/ly down and not move is when they are being compliant. Hope you have some success soon with Coco... Edited March 15, 2008 by ozk9s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Without seeing Coco and her behaviour it is hard to say why she does things. I still believe thought that is is the working dog in her. If you looked up a lot of Kelpie sites and saw pics of them working, they will often have a lower body position. Not so much the yardy types but more paddocky ones and also Border Collies. I don't think it is a submissive thing if she is doing it as soon as they come in her sight. It is a response triggered by movement from afar. One of my Kelpies will drop to the ground at the sound of an approaching car and she doesn't want to meet it and she is not being submissive to it either. She is positioning herself to get ready to block it if it doesn't stop at her behaviour. Then when it comes in sight her gaze gets more intense the closer it gets and she trembles with anticipation that she will be able to block it but then as it gets to her she leaps out and trys to grab its wheels. And yes she has caught the odd one but she still does it as it is her instinct and it is bred into her. Same as when a dog gets kicked or butted by the stock they are working tehy need to be able to bounce back and be more serious. To them, it becomes a bigger challenge to conquer the tough ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkey Trip Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 My friend once had a Pembroke Welsh Corgi pup which would, at about the age of about 8 months drop down on the verge of the road every time a car approached. She did nothing else, just clapped down and watched the vehicle intently with ears pricked until it had passed, then up again to resume her walk as though nothing had happened. Once she had been out more often, she no longer bothered reacting to cars. I really should have asked her ...why? :D It is still a mystery to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charli73 Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Hi Paul, I had to laugh when I saw this post as our 9.5 month old German Shepherd does the exact same thing, and also gets a giggle from the other dogs owners. My thought with our pup is that its a ploy to get the other dogs to feel like its ok to approach and when they get close enough she will spring up and say HI and then it gets a bit outta control.. It Bugged us too so now were (with the help of some private home lessons) turning when we see another dog. She is a habitual lead puller also and were trying to train these traits out of her. So IMO its not a kelpie thing... good luck with it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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