cazzaritch Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Hi guys, As the title states, I feed my guys on Barf. They get a chicken frame for breakfast and then barf mix for tea. In the barf mix are the following ingredients..... Chicken mince fruit and veggies cottage cheese natural yoghurt sardines liver eggs omega plus oil and vets all natural supplement They seem to run out of steam a bit quicker than I would like and wonder if there is anything I can change or add to their diet to help with their energy levels? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 This is why I took Cooper off BARF. He was flat as a tack and for the life of me I could not find out what I was doing wrong. Everything was by the book and nothing I added worked, so he was put back on premium dry. I am interested to see what everyone suggests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 My suggestions: Feed the mix less often. Once every couple of days would be enough. Mix up your meats more - use beef mince, lamb and beef bones and vary your offal too. Up the fat content generally - that's the energy food. How fit are your dogs? How lean are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 No red meat could be one thing. Chicken alone isn't a great idea. Not enough protein, as frames are mostly bone and mince is just mince - so calc/phos levels could be off too. It doesn't sound particularly balanced to me. How much liver is in the mix? Most people recommend that liver, egg, cheese and sardines aren't given every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Chicken is low in iron so if it isnt getting another source of iron then theres a problem in its self. The other fact is different dogs do better on different diets,whats good for one could be useless for another plus breed specific needs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzaritch Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 My suggestions:Feed the mix less often. Once every couple of days would be enough. Mix up your meats more - use beef mince, lamb and beef bones and vary your offal too. Up the fat content generally - that's the energy food. How fit are your dogs? How lean are they? Thanks for your reply We do sometimes add beef mince in to the mix - sorry, meant to say that. They also get a bit bolla bone about once a week as a treat instead of one of their meals. So, what would I feed instead of the mix, more chicken frames/other bones? They are not lean, but not fat either. Lou could do with losing about 1.5 kgs, but I think andy is ok, can see his back rib just. They get taken to the off lead park every day for at least 30-45 minutes, but sometimes give up after about 20-25 minutes. During this time, they run around like mad things after all of the other dogs there. Andy always crashes out before Lou does. I would be concerend a little about upping the fat content in case they put on weight and what would i add to increase it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzaritch Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 No red meat could be one thing. Chicken alone isn't a great idea. Not enough protein, as frames are mostly bone and mince is just mince - so calc/phos levels could be off too.It doesn't sound particularly balanced to me. How much liver is in the mix? Most people recommend that liver, egg, cheese and sardines aren't given every day. We make a huge batch of mix that lasts about a month and in that will be about 2kgs of chicken/beef liver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Running around like mad things for 20-25 minutes, particularly at this time of year when it is warm, does not sound too bad to me. That said, I agree that you may want to feed more red meats such as beef and lamb. Don't feed lean red meats but those with some fat content as well. Lamb flaps are good. Also beef brisket bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Instead of frames all the time, I'd feed other RMBs. Lamb flaps and necks and beef frames are good. I also feed pork ribs when I can get them cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzaritch Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 Running around like mad things for 20-25 minutes, particularly at this time of year when it is warm, does not sound too bad to me.That said, I agree that you may want to feed more red meats such as beef and lamb. Don't feed lean red meats but those with some fat content as well. Lamb flaps are good. Also beef brisket bones. Will that also help with the calc/phos levels? Is there anything else I can do? I don't really want to go back to totally dry, but would a few meals of the advance puppy growth large breed help? We always keep some in for emergencies, like forgetting to take the mix out of the freezer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 What fruit and veggies do you feed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzaritch Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 What fruit and veggies do you feed? Broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, carrots, sweet potato, pumpkin, apples, pears, tomatoes. In the monthly mix goes approx the following quantities... 10kg mince 10kg fruit/veggies as above 2kg cottage cheese 2kg yoghurt 12 cans sardines dozen eggs including shells 2kg liver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) Broccoli and cabbage are both cruciferous veggies and can impact on thyroid function if fed often and in enough quantity. I'd drop them both and substitute some other greenery for a while. Maybe zucchini? See if that makes a difference. Drop the tomatoes too. They are members of the nightshade family and not wonderful for dogs. A wider variety of fruit and veggie may assist. I feed everything from capsicum, to beetroot (not the stalks/leaves), strawberries and pineapple. I work on what's on special and what's getting sad in the fridge. If you really wanted to eliminate any issues, you can have some bloodwork done. Edited March 13, 2008 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzaritch Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 Broccoli and cabbage are both cruciferous veggies and can impact on thyroid function if fed often and in enough quantity.I'd drop them both and substitute some other greenery for a while. Maybe zucchini? See if that makes a difference. Drop the tomatoes too. They are members of the nightshade family and not wonderful for dogs. A wider variety of fruit and veggie may assist. I feed everything from capsicum, to beetroot (not the stalks/leaves), strawberries and pineapple. I work on what's on special and what's getting sad in the fridge. If you really wanted to eliminate any issues, you can have some bloodwork done. Thanks for the advice poodlefan - i will defintely give this a go. Do you think i should feed less mix meals and more other things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) Broccoli and cabbage are both cruciferous veggies and can impact on thyroid function if fed often and in enough quantity.I'd drop them both and substitute some other greenery for a while. Maybe zucchini? See if that makes a difference. Drop the tomatoes too. They are members of the nightshade family and not wonderful for dogs. A wider variety of fruit and veggie may assist. I feed everything from capsicum, to beetroot (not the stalks/leaves), strawberries and pineapple. I work on what's on special and what's getting sad in the fridge. If you really wanted to eliminate any issues, you can have some bloodwork done. Thanks for the advice poodlefan - i will defintely give this a go. Do you think i should feed less mix meals and more other things? It's worth a go. My guys get the mix one meal in every three. I only feed once a day but that's neither here nor there. I'd also suggest you could drop the dairy content of the mix and feed fish as a meal rather than in the mix. Balance over time is the goal. What oil are the sardines in? If it's soy, change to something else if you can. However, if the lethagy continues, I'd suggest you talk to your vet. No one diet is best for every dog and some dogs simply don't do all that well on a raw diet. Make changes on estep at a time. I'd allow 6 weeks or so to evaluate changes. Edited March 13, 2008 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzaritch Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 sardines are in vegetable oil, I don't think its in soy. I give them the homebrand ones from Woollies. So what exactly do you feed your guys, and yes, I will change things slowly. I thought popping the fish in the mix was good as they would get the balance over time? I am getting a little bit confused now. Also, if I take it out of the mix and feed as a whole meal, how many sardines would I give a 32kg labrador? Thinking back, the dogs have had chicken mince only in their last 2 batches, this could be why they have started to slow due to lack of red meat over the last 6 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzaritch Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 Starting to get very cross with myself - damn it, I hope i can put this right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) Starting to get very cross with myself - damn it, I hope i can put this right. I feed chicken wings and drummies, lamb shanks, necks and flaps and beef bones of varying types. Also pork bones. Bunnies when I can get them and duck wings too! Their BARF mix is based on full fat beef mince, with a nutritional supplement, yoghurt, fruit and veggies and an oil blend. Apples, carrots and pumpkin always feature but the others change. I feed celery a fair bit too. Your dogs are still eating better than many dogs - don't sweat it. My dogs are less active in warmer weather anyway. How old are your dogs? Edited March 13, 2008 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzaritch Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 They will both be 1 on 5th April. What I think I will do is make a new mix with just beef mix and alternate it back in to their diet. So chicken 1 day and beef the next, or is this too quick? I will decrease the amount of cottage cheese and yoghurt in it and keep the fish out and just give them a couple of tins each (will that be enough) once a week. Will also go and get a better mix of bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) Cazz sounds like the other have made great suggestions. I to would be adding more red meat and think that the lack of it may be the cause of your dogs seemed tiredness. How about trying kangaroo. You can get it cheap from animal produce shops. My version of BARF: I make up veggie slops that will always contain: Flaxseed Oil eggs and shells celary carrot zuccini capsiucum alfalfa apple pumpkin with other things such as brocolli, cauliflower, pineapple, sweet potato, bannana rotating depending on what's cheapest and what's available. I feed the slops every day with a roation of the following added to it: - chicken necks at least twice a week - chicken breast roasted every two weeks or so - canned sardines or canned tuna at least once a week - kangaroo meat once a week - I also feed lamb, beef and pork bits once or twice a week depending on what is going the cheapest at the shops. - Low fat youghurt once a week (along with the slops and whatever meat they are having that day) - Lambs kidneys once a week (along with the slops and whatever meat they are having that day) The will also get a red meat bone twice a week. Edited March 14, 2008 by puggy_puggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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