Advice Sought

[hails83]

Hi all

We collected our Mini Schnauzer puppy a week and a half ago, and she is now 9 1/2 weeks old. I have been home with her 24/7, and have also been crate training her. She is fantastic, a real little character, however I have a few concerns (training issues on my part, I'm sure).

1. First of all, I have her crate set up beside the bed in our bedroom. Over the first few nights she would wake and cry several times a night (ie. generally every hour and a half) so I would take her out for a potty break, however this has dropped off rapidly. She now only wakes me when she stirs (not crying to get let out) and this has only been happening at about 4am every morning. Even though she was not crying to get let out, I would take her out for a potty trip anyway. Now she is not waking at all throughout the night, and I am only taking her out at 7.30 in the morning. Is this normal? I guess every puppy is different, however I am concerned that because she is only 9 1/2 weeks old, she should need to go more regularly. Should I be waking her up to take her out for a potty break regardless if she is awake and showing signs that she wants to go?
   
2. Secondly, she eats a lot of grass and rocks! Whenever I take her out for a toilet break, she is constantly eating grass. Just earlier, I took her out for a toilet break, she dug up and chewed on grass for 10 minutes or so, so I took her in. She had been inside for 30 seconds, and then she did a wee on the tiles. I am unsure of what to do as she seems too preoccupied with the grass to take notice that she needs to do a wee, despite me calling her command that I use when she is doing her business. This has also happened on another 2 occasions. I have cordoned off half of the backyard as it had too many rocks and she was getting distracted and I really don't want her to be eating and swallowing them. Although I watch her like a hawk, there are some rocks that just go straight in her mouth and I can't fish them out again (not to mention her gnawing on the edge of pavers and bricks).
   
3. Lastly, she doesn't seem to be taking to her crate as well as I would have hoped. Overnight is generally not too bad as she is generally sleepy and knows that is her sleeping spot - however if I put her in there for 5 minutes during the day, she's not very happy. I leave toys in there, and leave some treats as well, however I cannot leave the room without her going into a whining/crying fit. She also never goes to her crate on her own accord, I have to really really entice her in with her toys and treats. Any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong?
   

Sorry for all the questions, however I would really appreciate some advice. I am unsure if I am worrying too much, or expecting too much from her.

Thanks.

[Whitecherry]

I sooooo feel for you, I'm having exactly the same issues at the moment.. my boy is 12 weeks and we've only had him one day, but I'm already exhausted! I don't know how I'm going to be in a week... My boy is in his crate right now, carrying on like I'm about to murder him.. he hates it! But from what I've been told, I have to persist if I'm to get the results in the end.. Good luck!

[hails83]

I sooooo feel for you, I'm having exactly the same issues at the moment.. my boy is 12 weeks and we've only had him one day, but I'm already exhausted! I don't know how I'm going to be in a week... My boy is in his crate right now, carrying on like I'm about to murder him.. he hates it! But from what I've been told, I have to persist if I'm to get the results in the end.. Good luck!

Yes, it is so exhausting, however rewarding at the same time. I just have to keep telling myself that when she has just done a wee on the floor, or like you said, carying on in her crate like she is about to be murdered! Mine is asleep under the lounge here at the moment, so I luckily don't have her screaming and carrying on in her crate.

It's not so much that she is acting this way, it is more so to do with the fact that I feel like we have got somewhere and then the next day we seem to be back at square one - I am a little confused, but if I'm confused, I can only imagine that she is too.

[lucknow]

First of all, congratulations on your new puppy, she's a cutie! As for your problems/concerns:

1. Well done, your puppy and you are marvellous! No concerns, just an understanding of not toileting in the crate, night time is sleep time, and good muscular control! Don't wake her to go out specially, she is doing as she should.

2. It sounds like your pup is exploring this wonderful new place she has landed in. Eating rocks and stones should be discouraged (as you are). They can cause problems and the only good thing about your dog eating them will be your vets bank balance. Grass is not such a problem, but it would be wise to check plants in her area are not poisnous (for instance Oleander is very popular, looks great, even planted on roadsides, deadly). Give a safe area to play, safe plants to explore, and lots of toys. It is likely a stage and will pass along with other cuter puppy habits.

3. Maybe when you put the puppy in the crate at night you give different signals indicating quiet time. There should be no activity when it is crate time or everyone wants to join in... If puppy complains when in the crate wait until completely settled before letting her out, otherwise you are teaching her crying will work. Be strong, leave the house if you have to, some take longer than others to learn but if you approach it right it will at least be accepted, most likely loved as a special safe bed.

Persevere, you sound as though you really are doing wonderfully!

[Dogsfevr]

Minis arent garden eaters so i would consider her diet but i would contact the breeder in that area.

Our minis luv there crates but be patient its only been a week & not enough time for lots of changes

Edited March 15, 2008 by settrlvr

[hails83]

First of all, congratulations on your new puppy, she's a cutie! As for your problems/concerns:

1. Well done, your puppy and you are marvellous! No concerns, just an understanding of not toileting in the crate, night time is sleep time, and good muscular control! Don't wake her to go out specially, she is doing as she should.

2. It sounds like your pup is exploring this wonderful new place she has landed in. Eating rocks and stones should be discouraged (as you are). They can cause problems and the only good thing about your dog eating them will be your vets bank balance. Grass is not such a problem, but it would be wise to check plants in her area are not poisnous (for instance Oleander is very popular, looks great, even planted on roadsides, deadly). Give a safe area to play, safe plants to explore, and lots of toys. It is likely a stage and will pass along with other cuter puppy habits.

3. Maybe when you put the puppy in the crate at night you give different signals indicating quiet time. There should be no activity when it is crate time or everyone wants to join in... If puppy complains when in the crate wait until completely settled before letting her out, otherwise you are teaching her crying will work. Be strong, leave the house if you have to, some take longer than others to learn but if you approach it right it will at least be accepted, most likely loved as a special safe bed.

Persevere, you sound as though you really are doing wonderfully!

Thanks for your advice. Yes, I am very much so discouraging the rock eating. We will be laying pavers down soon, so I am hoping to have a very rock-free garden soon. I only hope she will grow out of the habit, otherwise taking her out when she is older could be interesting! Our back lawn area is surrounded by raised garden beds which she cannot reach, and we do not have any toxic plants dropping their leaves/flowers/pods etc that she can get to.

Every time I put her in the crate, the environment is very quiet and I generally potter around the bedroom while she is in there. She's not really too excited about going in the crate, however if I am in the room with her (reading a book a metre away on the bed) then she is fine. It is when I get up and leave the room that she starts crying/screaming. Night time is fine as I place her in there, she is sleepy, and we go to bed at the same time, so she is content in having us in the room with her. I can't reward her for being quiet in the crate because she's not noisy when I am around - only when I am out of the room. Not sure what to do - or if I need to be doing anything to help this. I would like to get her feeling comfortable about being on her own as she will have to be on her own at times eventually (there has always been someone with her since she came home almost two weeks ago).

Minis arent garden eaters so i would consider her diet but i would contact the breeder in that area.

Our minis luv there cartes but be patient its only been a week & a bit not enough time for lots of changes

Thanks, I will have a chat to the breeder and see what she says. I will also be taking the puppy to the vet soon for her second vaccination, so I will ask there too.

And yes, patience seems to be the primary virtue, as I have learnt over the past couple of weeks. My only concern is that I am setting her up for stressful situations when I place her in the crate and leave the room, resulting in her becoming rather distressed. I am just wondering if I should persevere and continue to put her in there and ignore her crying (hoping that over time it will improve), or if I should be taking a different approach. I really don't want to make the crate something she associates with unpleasant encounters.

[lucknow]

Every time I put her in the crate, the environment is very quiet and I generally potter around the bedroom while she is in there. She's not really too excited about going in the crate, however if I am in the room with her (reading a book a metre away on the bed) then she is fine. It is when I get up and leave the room that she starts crying/screaming. Night time is fine as I place her in there, she is sleepy, and we go to bed at the same time, so she is content in having us in the room with her. I can't reward her for being quiet in the crate because she's not noisy when I am around - only when I am out of the room. Not sure what to do - or if I need to be doing anything to help this. I would like to get her feeling comfortable about being on her own as she will have to be on her own at times eventually (there has always been someone with her since she came home almost two weeks ago).

And yes, patience seems to be the primary virtue, as I have learnt over the past couple of weeks. My only concern is that I am setting her up for stressful situations when I place her in the crate and leave the room, resulting in her becoming rather distressed. I am just wondering if I should persevere and continue to put her in there and ignore her crying (hoping that over time it will improve), or if I should be taking a different approach. I really don't want to make the crate something she associates with unpleasant encounters.

You need to let her learn to settle herself when you are not in the room or around her. Keep on as you are making it comfortable and nice, put her in and leave the room. The reward for being quiet is what she has in her crate to enjoy when she settles. Crate training sets her up for more advanced lessons as and when you see fit but is one of the first things she will associate with you being the boss and not her.

[Fly1170]

Hi

I think you've seen from my other thread I also have a 10 week old mini! Our little boy loves his crate and goes in there on his own when left alone in the house (I come home and he's asleep in the back of it) or just to get away from the kids. During the day I feed him in there (as per the breeder advice), during the night (or when I'm out) I put his sleeping cushion and some soft toys in there. Maybe you could try this?

Mine also tries out 'garden food' but as yet hasn't actually swllowed any. I'll be keeping an eye on it now after the responses you got regardng the issue.

Good Luck - I'm sure we'll see each other in here regularly

Louise

[NoodleNut]

Every time I put her in the crate, the environment is very quiet and I generally potter around the bedroom while she is in there. She's not really too excited about going in the crate, however if I am in the room with her (reading a book a metre away on the bed) then she is fine. It is when I get up and leave the room that she starts crying/screaming. Night time is fine as I place her in there, she is sleepy, and we go to bed at the same time, so she is content in having us in the room with her. I can't reward her for being quiet in the crate because she's not noisy when I am around - only when I am out of the room. Not sure what to do - or if I need to be doing anything to help this. I would like to get her feeling comfortable about being on her own as she will have to be on her own at times eventually (there has always been someone with her since she came home almost two weeks ago).

And yes, patience seems to be the primary virtue, as I have learnt over the past couple of weeks. My only concern is that I am setting her up for stressful situations when I place her in the crate and leave the room, resulting in her becoming rather distressed. I am just wondering if I should persevere and continue to put her in there and ignore her crying (hoping that over time it will improve), or if I should be taking a different approach. I really don't want to make the crate something she associates with unpleasant encounters.

How is the crate training going?

We waited until Noodle was 13 weeks before shutting the door on the crate. Good or bad it seems to have worked ok for us. No-one told me to do that .. it is just what I decided to do ... The reason for waiting a little longer to shut the door on the crate was that she was very inconsistent with her toileting ... 11pm, 2am and 4am .. EVERY NIGHT from 8 weeks to 12/13 weeks. We had the crate in a penned area in the kitchen with absorbent pad for her to go to the toilet on .. more often than not I could not get to her quick enough to get her out to the toilet ... LOTS OF FLOOR CLEANING! Exhausting work I must say. We only fed her up to 5/6pm each night but it still didn't seem to assist and she was just 'havin' to go!!' Number ones and Number twos!! groan.

The first night I shut the door on the crate - decided on 13 weeks when she was holding her bladder and bowels through the night from 11pm to 5:30/6am) she went berserk ;) and it was a bad decision to do in on a Thursday night when the kids were asleep, hubby had an important meeting the next day and I was just generally stuffed from all the getting up and down! I had to wait for a gruelling 30 minutes for her to even settle for 1min to get her out .. she then went berserk in the penned area she was so wound up and I had to put her outside. All bad!! Stupid me!

I started again the following night and crated her when we all went out for 1.5hours ... didn't need to listen to the kerfluffle she was making .. upset me more than anything but I know consistency is the key. When we got home she had been asleep as she stretched and ambled out of the crate. Teh following day on teh Sat afternoon while my husband was doing some work around the house, kids in the lounge and me on the computer in the kitchen I crated her again with teh door shut and let her go bananas (we were all otherwise occupied and as it was in the afternoon no-one was asleep so it was less stress listening to her) I gave her a liver pieces (when I put her in the crate - nothing more substantial as I was concerned she would get so worked up she would toilet in the crate) but as soon as she had consumed them she started up.

Since this first weekend she has slept every night in the crate. Occassionally carried on when i put her in but it is only once in 3/4 days ... becomeing less frequent. I have tried not to have a pattern to the crating .. apart form at night ... she goes in when we are at home .. and she is napping on teh kitchen floor, when we go out for 2 hours or so ... on Friday 40deg she was crated in the afternoon in the cool from 12:30 -3:30. I went back to work.

She has only peed in the crate once .. a hot night when she had drunk heaps and I slept through her 'shake' ... she shakes herself and I hear her dog tags ... get her outside to toilet and then straight back in to the crate .. no talking on praise for the 'wee'. I got her out to clean up the wee (I thought that must have been all in her bladder ... turned around and she had done another one on the kitchen floor .. took her outside and she did a poo! :D

Hang in there .. I am with you on the fatigue! It is worth it in the log run! Noodle is in her crate as I type ... will get her out in a few minutes for a toilet stop and then to bed. She didn't complain this afternoon or tonight. What also helps is if she has had enough exercise.

[hails83]

Thanks for your replies - sorry it has taken so long for me to get back on here and reply! It has been a very busy past couple of weeks.

Yes, Zali has her nice comfy bedding placed in her crate at bed time. Over the pass couple of weeks we have slowly moved her away from us overnight, and now she sleeps in her crate in the laundry. She still cries a little when she is first left alone, however I don't think this has anything to do with her crate, as she cries regardless of if she is in there or not, if we walk away and leave her alone. She still doesn't seem too keen about going in her crate but I think this is due to the fact that she associates this with being left alone (as she goes in there for bed time and when I can't keep an eye on her).

We have now started to leave her home alone for longer periods during the day - confined to the laundry area with plenty of toys and access to her crate. Still some crying/screaming when we leave, however I' hoping this will improve over time.