Menu Advice Raw & Dry Diet

[Miss Monster]

Ok so I have 2 ridgebacks, Bakari 8 month old and Meisha 5.5 years old. At the moment Bakari is on Eagle Pack Holistic Large Breed Puppy (6-7 cups/day) and Meisha is on Hills Large Breed Adult (4 cups/day).

At the moment we are going through a 15kg bag of each of these every 3-4 weeks so it's costing at least $200 a month to feed them!

I do occasionally give them a chicken carcess/lamb shank for one meal (feed twice a day), or add a few sardines to their dry and I want to start giving them more of the variety to cut down the food bill.

I can get:

Human Beef mince 5kg $25 (this is the mince we eat as well)

Chicken frame mince $1/kg

Chicken frames 5 for $1

Lamb Shanks 400g for about $2-3 each

Tins Tuna 400g for $2-3

Sardines 125g for $0.60

Bakari doesn't like Kangaroo and he isn't a fan of liver either. Meisha will pretty much eat anything. I'm going to try to add a few slivers of Liver to Bakari's dinner to get him used to it.

Question is they are both around 42kg and I've seen the 2.5%-4% of their bodyweight as a guide to feeding them. So that would be about 1kg - 1.75kg of food per day each. I feed them twice a day so that's roughly 600g each per meal so can someone suggest a good menu plan/balance for them. I'm happy to give them a bit of dry with the other stuff.

I just don't know whether the weight guide is ok when you are comparing bones/minced meat/tin tuna/offal (which I've read not to give them too much).

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Ren

[4 Paws]

Don't know much about Ridgebacks but is 42kg's the normal weight ?

I own german shepherds and they're only roughly around the 30kg mark and on about 2 - 2/12 cups Nutro plus a brisket bone,or a couple of chicken necks etc

Edited March 12, 2008 by 4 Paws

[laffi]

I am not sure how helpful this is but:

http://www.caninecountry.com.au/ has amazing selection of raw meaty bones really cheap. I go there once a month and fill up my freezer

I feed mines model pray diet. This is a very useful post by DeltaCharlie from this thread:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...28030&st=45

about the raw diet, proportions and such:

This is a sample weekly plan that I usually show people to give them an idea. It doesnt have to be strictly adhered to- thats the beauty of this diet, it just has to even out over time. If I have nothing but meat left over then thats what they get for a week and the next week I feed more bones. I would advise feeding the bones frozen at first as it means they have to chew through them properly as they are too cold to swallow whole. This should prevent them gulping them. I fed frozen bones to Delta from the day I brought her home at 8 weeks and I have never had a problem with her not chewing them properly.

Monday: BONES (chicken necks, wings, drumsticks; duck necks; turkey necks; lamb soup bones; kangaroo tails; ox tails; lamb flaps; ribs)

Tuesday: MEAT (a raw meat mince thing I get from a racing greyhound supplier near me. I usually get a beef/lamb/chicken mix but if Im short on money I get chicken mince. I try to get a different meat though as their bones meal is usually poultry based.)

Wednesday: MEAT

Thursday: MEAT

Friday: BONES (unless mondays bones had very little meat on them, then I feed meat again)

Saturday: 1/2 ORGANS (liver or kidney usually) 1/2 FISH (canned tuna/salmon/sardines/mackeral)

Sunday: 1/2 ORGANS 1/2 FISH (basically the other half of the packets from the night before)

Basically each day they should get 2-3% of their ideal body weight. For my dogs that is only about 350-400g per day. It doesnt seem like much but any more than that and they start putting on weight. Because everything that you are feeding them is useful they dont need to eat as much, hence less coming out the other end.

Basically a rough guide is to feed

10% organs

15% bones

75% meat

I also feed raw egg a few times a week (plus the shell crushed, its great for calcium) and yoghurt every so often. So long as you are also feeding fish weekly you shouldnt need to supplement their diet in any way. They get plenty of omega-3 (eggs and fish) and calcium (eggs and yoghurt) as well as all the good bacteria that yoghurt provides. Off the top of my head I cant think of the names of all the vitamins and minerals needed but I know that they are provided by this diet.

Judge the diet based on how they look and what their poo looks like:

- If they are putting on weight, feed less; if they are getting skinny feed more

- If their poo is black they need more bones, if it is white they need less bones

It has been a long time since I stuck to the certain food each day routine that I posted above. Some days it is easier to just open a can of tuna for them. I never remember to get the meat out of the freezer which doesnt bother them but if I am in a rush I dont have time to wait for them to eat a frozen chicken carcuss just because it is "bones" day.

I have this chart on my fridge. Every meal I write next to it what they had (c= chicken, f= fish, l= lamb, b=beef, k= kangaroo) so that I dont feed them chicken all week etc. I write breakfast on the left, dinner on the right, although they usually just get one meal as Im lazy so I write both the same time. Any extra stuff I added gets written down the bottom (e= egg, y= yoghurt). It is easy to keep track of what they have had this way and I dont double up too much.

As for the shopping list, I get most of my stuff from butchers or the greyhound supplier near me. Be careful to get human quality meat though (it can be packaged for pets, thats still okay). Pet mince can sometimes have a chemical added to stop it going off as quickly and this can make your dog very sick. Human grade food is not allowed to have this chemical added. Any scraps from a butcher etc is fine, I would just be wary about the pet mince in supermarkets etc (although they cost an arm and a leg anyway). Butchers will often mince up all the bits humans wouldnt eat and sell it to pet owners cheap so it is worth looking around to see what is available.

I pay 50c a kilo for chicken mince and about $1 a kilo for the beef/lamb/chicken mix. There is a chicken place near where I work that sells 5kg bags of carcusses for about $3; chicken liver, hearts, kidneys etc for about $1.50/kg, and things like chicken necks, wings, drumsticks about $1.50/kg. I can buy a months worth of food for 2 dogs and a cat and pay about $15, although I wouldn't feed only chicken.

I like to vary the meat sources but the only place I have found for non-chicken organs is the supermarket which can be a few dollars for 500g. Organs are probably the most expensive part of the diet, but still only cost a few dollars a week. I also get the canned fish from the supermarket (just the home brand stuff). Im sure the seafood places could help out but I dont like the smell in those places so I havent ever gone in and asked.

I usually get the bones from the butcher aswell. There is one near me that makes up 2kg bags of lamb flaps, shanks, and other completely edible bones and charges $1/bag. You just have to make sure you are getting bones that your dog can chew through, so no weight bearing bones like cow legs and stuff. Although they are good for chewing on, just not for dinner.

It seems like a lot of work and preparation but it really isnt very hard at all. I spent months researching before finally switching, then kicked myself for worrying so much about nothing. Once you get into a rhythm it really doesnt take much effort at all. Once a month I will buy everything I need for that month. I get home and spend about 30mins putting it all into individual portion freezer bags and put it in the freezer. Then each day I get it out and give it to the dogs.

At first I watched everything like a hawk ready to make any minor alterations. I weighed every single portion and made sure they were just right, I checked the poo daily, and I kept a close eye on the dogs. Then I realised how obvious it was if something wasnt right and how easy it was to fix. It really isnt as daunting as it first seems.

Check out these websites as well

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/

http://www.rawfoodlife.com/raw_pets.htm

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.kaossiberians.com/rawfeeding.htm

[Miranda]

Forget about the feeding guides, that's all they are, guides, and all dogs are different. Use the condition of your dogs as a guide, if they're looking good you're doing it right.

I feed twice a day, chicken wings, frames, wings, lamb flaps or brisket bones in the morning and 1 or 1 1/2 cups (depending on the dog) of Nutro mixed with meat and other goodies in the evening. I feed beef mince which I get for $3.99 per kg and any of the following, cooked liver (my dogs won't touch it raw), raw eggs, tinned mackerel or salmon and any appropriate leftovers. Once or twice a week I make a stew of chicken thighs or forequarter chops mixed with vegetables and pour this over their dry food, but I do remove the bones first. They also get two fish oil tablets and Protexin which is a probiotic. If I happen to be eating it they also get some yoghurt.

I don't know how much it costs me, but the dogs look good on it.

[Miss Monster]

4 paws - Ridgebacks are generally around 35-40kg but my two are about an inch taller than standard so tend to weigh a bit more. Meisha is Bakari's mum so he must've got his height from her. :D

Thanks Laffi, I knew DC had posted some good info but there is sooo many threads I couldn't find anything! Canine Country is where I get my eaglepack from - have you tried his mince mixes? I was thinking of getting some of them to vary the meat part a bit.

I read somewhere else that you shouldn't just use mince for the meat part? And the chicken frame mince - would that be considered a bone or meat meal

I know once I grasp the concept it'll be easier but so much info to digest!

Thanks Miranda I might start by cutting to one dry meal and feed pray for the other until they get used to the foods and I'm organised enough to have what I need there

Edited March 12, 2008 by Russ_Ren

[laffi]

Thanks Laffi, I knew DC had posted some good info but there is sooo many threads I couldn't find anything! Canine Country is where I get my eaglepack from - have you tried his mince mixes? I was thinking of getting some of them to vary the meat part a bit.

Mines love the Canine Complete Duck. I use it to fill up their Kongs.

I read somewhere else that you shouldn't just use mince for the meat part? And the chicken frame mince - would that be considered a bone or meat meal

It's much better to feed them meaty bones than mince. It makes them chew and cleans their teeth. Much more natural for them.

I only use the mince to fill up Kongs (that already contain one or two chicken necks) and to hide any medicines/wormers they might need (like Sentinel Spectrum).