Doggie Bootcamp Redux

[IncrediJack]

A few weeks ago, I posted a topic about a friend who had sent her dog to a farm stay for a week-long training. The dog came back aces, absolutely obedient, perfect. Meanwhile I was battling with my own puppy problems. She seemed to get such the easy way out, but I opted not to enroll my boy. I didn't like the idea of the choke chains used for basic commands and yanked until the dog yelped. Anyway, I just got a call from her. She had to put her dog down. It attacked her! And at the RSPCA mauled another dog! So glad I didn't go that route. I find the choke chains pulled until the puppy yelps quite aggressive. It just goes to show that using aggression to solve aggressive behavior does not work!

On my front, I led my own doggie boot camp, using positive reinforcement and fun. I trained throughout the day and have seen much improvement in my naughty puppy. Thanks to everyone for their advice. To deal with the digging, I put him back in the crate when I'm gone. To deal with the barking at dinnertime, I have started feeding him earlier (an hour or so before we eat) and take him on a walk before our dinner. And recall, recall, recall. "Come" is the best trick in the books!

[laffi]

I am really sorry about your friend's dog :D , and I totally agree with you: you cannot solve aggression with aggression.

Congrats about your training!

Positive methods work wonders (although they can be much slower than other methods).

[poodlefan]

Incredijack:

Anyway, I just got a call from her. She had to put her dog down.

Crikey! :D What a hard lesson she's learned about shortcut methods to an obedient dog. Did she say what triggered the attack?

[IncrediJack]

Incredijack:

Anyway, I just got a call from her. She had to put her dog down.

Crikey! What a hard lesson she's learned about shortcut methods to an obedient dog. Did she say what triggered the attack?

For the first two weeks, she had the best most obedient dog. But by week 3, the dog started being defiant. My friend took her back to the trainer, and the trainer told her she wasn't tugging the chain hard enough. So on their next walk, her dog tugged at the lead. My friend pulled the choke chain harder, and the dog turned around and bit her leg. I can't believe this guy gets paid for this kind of advice. A very sad lesson.

Edited March 12, 2008 by IncrediJack

[persephone]

Oh dear what a sad sad ending.

I hope people reading this now have a better understanding when we sometimes advise people to get a BEHAVIOURIST in to assess a problematic situation with a dog.

There are many dog 'trainers' out there who have inadequate knowledge of the dog's inner workings....and that the dog AND its humans need to be both worked with and educated.

Your poor friend, and the poor dog.

I am glad that your own 'boot camp' is working!!!!!!!! Well done, you !

[poodlefan]

Tragedies like this are the reason why I believe we need some kind of accreditation of dog trainers in Australia and soon.

Jo Average thinks they all know what they are doing. Some people find out the hard way (as this poor owner has done) that it's simply not the case.

If nothing else, she should get her money back. I bet the week of training wasn't cheap.

Poor owner, poor dog.

Edited March 12, 2008 by poodlefan

[The Spotted Devil]

Oh, how horrible! What a tragic situation, but sadly not unsurprising

IncrediJack, my 15 month old Dally is seriously intense and OTT and trust me when I say that clicker training has been the making of him Admittedly I have trained dogs before and my research interest is animal behaviour but it's the first time I've used a clicker.....nothing like seeing your young dog, with an air of complete comprehension, do a sensational recall, sit perfectly straight and true, then give you a look that so obviously says: "Now, where's my click and treat???" Good luck with your training!

[Reddii]

A few weeks ago, I posted a topic about a friend who had sent her dog to a farm stay for a week-long training. The dog came back aces, absolutely obedient, perfect. Meanwhile I was battling with my own puppy problems. She seemed to get such the easy way out, but I opted not to enroll my boy. I didn't like the idea of the choke chains used for basic commands and yanked until the dog yelped. Anyway, I just got a call from her. She had to put her dog down. It attacked her! And at the RSPCA mauled another dog! So glad I didn't go that route. I find the choke chains pulled until the puppy yelps quite aggressive. It just goes to show that using aggression to solve aggressive behavior does not work!

On my front, I led my own doggie boot camp, using positive reinforcement and fun. I trained throughout the day and have seen much improvement in my naughty puppy. Thanks to everyone for their advice. To deal with the digging, I put him back in the crate when I'm gone. To deal with the barking at dinnertime, I have started feeding him earlier (an hour or so before we eat) and take him on a walk before our dinner. And recall, recall, recall. "Come" is the best trick in the books!

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Just out of curiousity your friend didn't send their dog to a training centre that is also boarding kennels on the Eastern side of Brisbane did they. Sounds very similar to where I (naively) sent one of my dogs. Their mantra was also 'if the dog doesn't do as its told just yank harder'. I've since stopped correction for all but the most hideous of puppy offences to the point where it is VERY rare that my dogs get corrected and as a result have a dog that is working with me, not against me.

Big thumbs up to you for working through your problems in that way - I've learned that leadership is just that, leadership, not domination.

[IncrediJack]

A few weeks ago, I posted a topic about a friend who had sent her dog to a farm stay for a week-long training. The dog came back aces, absolutely obedient, perfect. Meanwhile I was battling with my own puppy problems. She seemed to get such the easy way out, but I opted not to enroll my boy. I didn't like the idea of the choke chains used for basic commands and yanked until the dog yelped. Anyway, I just got a call from her. She had to put her dog down. It attacked her! And at the RSPCA mauled another dog! So glad I didn't go that route. I find the choke chains pulled until the puppy yelps quite aggressive. It just goes to show that using aggression to solve aggressive behavior does not work!

On my front, I led my own doggie boot camp, using positive reinforcement and fun. I trained throughout the day and have seen much improvement in my naughty puppy. Thanks to everyone for their advice. To deal with the digging, I put him back in the crate when I'm gone. To deal with the barking at dinnertime, I have started feeding him earlier (an hour or so before we eat) and take him on a walk before our dinner. And recall, recall, recall. "Come" is the best trick in the books!

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Just out of curiousity your friend didn't send their dog to a training centre that is also boarding kennels on the Eastern side of Brisbane did they. Sounds very similar to where I (naively) sent one of my dogs. Their mantra was also 'if the dog doesn't do as its told just yank harder'. I've since stopped correction for all but the most hideous of puppy offences to the point where it is VERY rare that my dogs get corrected and as a result have a dog that is working with me, not against me.

Big thumbs up to you for working through your problems in that way - I've learned that leadership is just that, leadership, not domination.

Hi Reddii--

It was a boarding kennel on the Gold Coast, unfortunately a rather popular one. I've even seen the brochure at my vet's. This is the first time I have ever come across yank-harder training. Am wondering of it is more wide spread than I thought?

[Reddii]

Hi Reddii--

It was a boarding kennel on the Gold Coast, unfortunately a rather popular one. I've even seen the brochure at my vet's. This is the first time I have ever come across yank-harder training. Am wondering of it is more wide spread than I thought?

Not sure, but I do know that I've gone from a dog that would almost cower when I would return to her on a stay to a dog that trusts me implicitly and will do anything I ask of her as long as she understands what I am asking for. (She would cower because I would only ever leave her and call her back to me, which was fine, but the only time I went back to her was to correct her for breaking a stay or lying down. Bad practice all round really.)

I'm not suggesting there is no place for check chains. I still use one for both my dogs on the rare occasion we do obedience work, but definitely don't and don't have to use the tug harder method and would not recommend it to anyone.

I haven't heard of anyone else teaching this harshly which is why I wondered.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Hi Reddii--

It was a boarding kennel on the Gold Coast, unfortunately a rather popular one. I've even seen the brochure at my vet's. This is the first time I have ever come across yank-harder training. Am wondering of it is more wide spread than I thought?

Sorry to interrupt..but you should let your Vet Clinic know this story- they probably have no idea and likely would throw the brochures in the bin.

Mel.

[Cosmolo]

Thats terrible.. Its so much more than yank the dog around - and i do use corrections when appropriate.

[haven]

I'm not suggesting there is no place for check chains. I still use one for both my dogs on the rare occasion we do obedience work, but definitely don't and don't have to use the tug harder method and would not recommend it to anyone.

I haven't heard of anyone else teaching this harshly which is why I wondered.

There is no such thing as the 'tug harder' method, it's just bad training and prats like this give everyone who does know how to correctly use a correction chain when appropriate a bad name

[Reddii]

I'm not suggesting there is no place for check chains. I still use one for both my dogs on the rare occasion we do obedience work, but definitely don't and don't have to use the tug harder method and would not recommend it to anyone.

I haven't heard of anyone else teaching this harshly which is why I wondered.

There is no such thing as the 'tug harder' method, it's just bad training and prats like this give everyone who does know how to correctly use a correction chain when appropriate a bad name

I know there is know such thing as the 'tug harder method', I just put a name to how they told us to train. "If your dog is not responding or continues with the behaviour you need to correct your dog harder". Hence 'tug harder'.

I've since learned to use a correction chain FAR more effectively (thanks to my obedience club) and totally agree it is idiots like these guys who give a valid tool a bad name.

[Kelpie-i]

Oh my IncrediJack, so sorry to hear of your friend's situation with her dog. That's just awful!

Not all boarding/training places use harsh methods and it's unfortunate that the few cowboys who run some of these places tag themselves at dog trainers and then proceed to totally destroy a good dog. What's more depressing is that dog owners pay top dollar to these people, who do nothing but taint the general reputation of good boarding/training businesses.

At the end of the day, it's the owner's leadership skills, along with good handling skills, patience, understanding of the dog and commitment, which will train the dog.