Opinions

[Law]

Just wondering what everones opinion is on the right age to start using a check chain, haltie ect?

[Kelpie-i]

Law, if you are training your dog correctly then you should never need to use any of these.

Edited March 7, 2008 by Kelpie-i

[Law]

I used to train my dog with a haltie years ago as it was a requirement of the obedience school (she is about 10 now) I do not need any of these tools. I was merely asking for peoples opinions out of curiosity as I have heard various answers.

[haven]

Beyond legal requirements it depends on the temperament and maturity of the individual dog, not it's age imo

[luckydog]

Depends purely on the dog, but I am strongly against any sort of chain type correction collar.

I recommend either a half-martingale or a soft choker (one made of abseiling rope).

Both are very soft on the dog.

You can use those at almost any age.

Correcting with a chain is in my opinion very 19th century but maybe necessary for very large dogs.

[Kelpie-i]

used to train my dog with a haltie years ago as it was a requirement of the obedience school (she is about 10 now) I do not need any of these tools. I was merely asking for peoples opinions out of curiosity as I have heard various answers.

Oh okay.......my answer still stands however.

[Tonymc]

I have to agree entirely with Kelpie-I. Tony

[Paulp]

Beyond legal requirements it depends on the temperament and maturity of the individual dog, not it's age imo

I would agree with this. My second lab is from an adoption agency and was 15 months or so of age when we get her, she pulls like a locomotive (impressive for only 25kg of dog). I agreed with the adoption agency not to use a check chain but would not have anyway because she just pulls too hard (I am not against check chains, I trained my first lab on one but he did not pull hard enough to choke himself). I persisted with a flat collar for a couple of months and got nowhere (if the dog does not stop pulling long enough to squeeze some praise and a treat in then positive training is a tad difficult) so got a sporn pack leader head collar and now we are making great progress.

[jbbb]

I agreed with the adoption agency not to use a check chain but would not have anyway because she just pulls too hard

Check chains are not supposed to choke a dog! A quick 'pop' on the chain and the dog stops pulling and walks nicely beside you.

I would much prefer to use a check chain on a dog that pulls and teach it not to pull, than have a dog that chokes itself constantly on a flat collar. Like most training tools, check chains can be great if they are used correctly on the right dog.

Beyond legal requirements it depends on the temperament and maturity of the individual dog, not it's age imo

Edited March 9, 2008 by jbbb

[Paulp]

I agreed with the adoption agency not to use a check chain but would not have anyway because she just pulls too hard

Check chains are not supposed to choke a dog! A quick 'pop' on the chain and the dog stops pulling and walks nicely beside you.

[/i]

That is why I wouldn't use a check chain on her and went to the sporn pack leader instead.

[kelpiesrule]

I agreed with the adoption agency not to use a check chain but would not have anyway because she just pulls too hard

Check chains are not supposed to choke a dog! A quick 'pop' on the chain and the dog stops pulling and walks nicely beside you.

[/i]

That is why I wouldn't use a check chain on her and went to the sporn pack leader instead.

I agree with you JBBB, and a dog can be taught not to pull in 5 mins, no matter what collar or contraption you use, Ive proved this many times with friends that have dogs that they cannot take for a walk.

Ive never tried the sporn harnesses but I do know of a few people that have tried them and they didnt work.

Anything used is only as good as the handler using it. Ive seen far too many dogs on haltis that have their head strung up in an uncomfortable position because the handler has no idea what they are doing.

But back to Law's original question, as most people have said, it all depends on the dog and what the dog is going to be doing... I use martingales always for all my dogs (I like the ones with the chain part in it mostly)... the older dogs will have a check chain on for the show ring but that is not for correction, it is for looks.

[RealityBites]

I have used a prong collar on my large male doberman and can see how they work very effectively, and are not the cruel tool some people seem to think they are. However it did not work for us, and after having tried a few different things (Decided after being dragged along on a flat collar at a million miles an hour at the neighbours pomeranian while trying to entice him away with food, that it was not an option for me ) Have now started using the Black Dog Infin8 head halter. They are absolutely brilliant. They attach to the back of the dogs neck, so do not pull the head round at an unnatural angle, so cannot see how they would harm neck muscles, the dogs (Both dobes) have no problems wearing them, and I can now walk them both at the same time, easily and happily! I think it has to be what works for you, and works for the dog.

Edited to ad, I think if you start off with a puppy the way you mean to go on, is the best option. So if you use a flat collar, start a pup off with a flat collar etc etc

Edited March 10, 2008 by RealityBites

[dee lee]

I agree with you JBBB, and a dog can be taught not to pull in 5 mins, no matter what collar or contraption you use, Ive proved this many times with friends that have dogs that they cannot take for a walk.

5 minutes? Come to my house I challenge you!!!

Its taken me 6 months of solid daily loose lead walk training and dozens of tips from here and other people to get where i can finally enjoy walking my year-old staffy x. And she still needs constant reminders to walk nicely!

Whilst I accept some responsibility (because Im told it cant be the dog... ) I dont think loose lead walking is THAT simple.

BTW, I now use a blackdog training collar, but I did use a check chain for a few months, purely to keep full control over her and it was a godsend.

I think in principle having no training aids IS where we would all like to be, but realistically most people can do with a bit of help at some stage.

[4 Paws]

I use a leather matingale style collar with my gsd's,so a leather collar but has a part check chain running through as well.I've also tried the all fabric style martingale(like black dog) but get a better control with these ones

Edited March 14, 2008 by 4 Paws

[KitKat]

I agreed with the adoption agency not to use a check chain but would not have anyway because she just pulls too hard

Check chains are not supposed to choke a dog! A quick 'pop' on the chain and the dog stops pulling and walks nicely beside you.

I would much prefer to use a check chain on a dog that pulls and teach it not to pull, than have a dog that chokes itself constantly on a flat collar. Like most training tools, check chains can be great if they are used correctly on the right dog.

Beyond legal requirements it depends on the temperament and maturity of the individual dog, not it's age imo ;)

Fully agree with Haven and Jbbb

ETA - i've used most training tools out there with the exception of the halties etc (only due to personal dislike) - i've used them for different reasons and different times - now-a-days i mix and match depending on my mood when walking/taking my dogs out (Could be flat colar, martingale, check, cloth check, leather check, prong, halter etc)

Edited March 14, 2008 by KitKat

[dogdude]

I think that most newbys really do not like the idea of check chains to start with and most fail because they are either to soft on a hard dog or visa versa. Then there are the people who have no timing whatsoever.

I do think a confident, experienced handler can train most dogs to loose lead walk in just a few sessions.

I have only seen a handfull of dogs that I have come to the conclusion that a check chain was useless on that have sound temperements and no physical issues.

[haven]

I use a leather matingale style collar with my gsd's,so a leather collar but has a part check chain running through as well.I've also tried the all fabric style martingale(like black dog) but get a better control with these ones

Where did you get this one from? I like to use a martingale for my two these days but mine don't have buckles and they are such a PITA to put on and take off that I usually just end up using flat collars only.

[4 Paws]

I use a leather matingale style collar with my gsd's,so a leather collar but has a part check chain running through as well.I've also tried the all fabric style martingale(like black dog) but get a better control with these ones

Where did you get this one from? I like to use a martingale for my two these days but mine don't have buckles and they are such a PITA to put on and take off that I usually just end up using flat collars only.

http://www.pawzazzpetz.com.au/gpage13.html

[Ashka]

I really wish dog owners would learn to use any training aid properly before using it on their dog.

Check chains are used LOOSE not tight, you check the dog with immediate loose lead & Praise. It is NOT a choke chain. Use your wrist as the dogs neck, put it on the correct way round so it loosens as soon as the pressure is off and practice... If the dog pulls and chokes YOU have make a mistake not the dog.

Halties / halters have been used for generations on calves, foals, horses, goats, pet sheep etc. without problems.

I've never used a prong collar and never will as they are illegal in NZ.

Personally I use a check chain for formal obedience and when I want 100% attention and NO leg cocking or squatting. ie when walking through town, outdoor markets, crowded areas etc. The chain is loose 99.99% of the time. No squatting or leg cocking allowed in the Obedience ring, no tight leads either.

A very fine chain is used for the Show ring (No sitting) and a flat collar is used the rest of the time.

If you are as consistent as you should be the dog always knows exactly what is expected from what is put around his neck. They are not dumb.

My Ch. Cavalier wore a check chain for obedience training from approx. 3 months old. Same as all my previous dogs, most of which gained CDX incl the Chow boy and an Obedience Champion Springer.

I use what works for me and mine as should everyone else.

[haven]

Halties / halters have been used for generations on calves, foals, horses, goats, pet sheep etc. without problems.

I need to have this in my sig or something, I fear I'm becoming somewhat of a broken record;

The headcollars that are used on livestock are NOT the same as those that are used on dogs for the purpose of training. Livestock head collars are simply for restraint, they are worn losely fitted and are not designed to exert pressure on specifc points to any great extent.

Halties and the like are fitted snugly and are designed to put pressure on the poll and over the dogs nose where it is quite sensitive.

Likening a livestock headcollar to a haltie type tool used on dogs is comparing apples and oranges. A truer comparison would be between a dog headcollar and what is known as a 'war bridle' for livestock, which is rarely used because it is considered unnecessary for the most part.