Nipping Heels When Walking

[NoodleNut]

Hi All,

I would like some suggestions as to what you would suggest as a correction for heel nipping. We have a 12 week old Hungarian Puli (Noodle) and she has started the heel nipping over the past week - she is yet to realise we are NOT sheep !!! Very irritating when going for a walk or when outdoors and she is running around any of us just wander past. She tends to be worse at the 'silly' times of the day (first thing in the morning when she greets us and also on our walks). She is going to Puppy school and attends her last session tomorrow before going to obedience after her second immunisation (also tomorrow) in a couple of weeks when the immunisation 'kicks' in.

Currently the corrrection of choice is to put her quickly on her back and hold her muzzle and growl at her and wait for approx 15 sec and release when she is not struggling. Tonight she was at it numerous times and was probably reprimanded 8 times by either myself or my husband either when outside or off on our walk. It is literally a pain as her little teeth are sharp and we are keeping our 9year old and 5 year old away from her while she is exhibiting this behaviour (I mean away from her when she has an attack of the heel nips! Not nice) as they can't help their reactions and sometimes the yelp from them can excite her more.

Of course Noodle is also mouthing - some days she is more self controlled than others. On the days she is not self controlled she ends up in time out in the loo! This works well ... not so well when we are out pounding the pavement.

Apart from this she is doing really well at puppy school, sits, drops, we are also working on retrieval and 'give' at home. Toileting - she is inside at night in a pen in the kitchen with her bed (the crate seems to be too hot for her to sleep in) and an absorbent pad. She is waking at about 2am and shaking and I take her out to poo and wee (working on the defecating on command by respeating the action 'wee ... GOOD GIRL!!!') and then sleeps until 5-6am and then outside after that. If she needs to 'go' in between times she goes on teh pad more often than not or standing right over it but sometimes 'overshot' the mark

So, advice anyone?? Pretty typical behaviour from a working dog but not a trait I require in the 'burb's of Melbourne without livestock

[luvsdogs]

Look up www.dogstardaily.com for all the answers to your problems. Alpha rolls are not a good idea. She is in her critical period (up to 16 weeks) where puppies learn all their life lessons. Puppies need to learn bite inhibition by learning that biting hurts & to have soft mouths.

[NoodleNut]

Look up www.dogstardaily.com for all the answers to your problems. Alpha rolls are not a good idea. She is in her critical period (up to 16 weeks) where puppies learn all their life lessons. Puppies need to learn bite inhibition by learning that biting hurts & to have soft mouths.

Hi!

Thank you for your reply. I have found the forum to be very quiet on this issue and yours has been the only reply so I thank you for taking the time.

I have had a look at the site - very helpful. However, it does not address the heel nipping (perhaps I am not searching for the right things to find reference to it). Puppy school suggested we just stand there and not walk any further until she stops ... this is painful to us!! Her little teeth go straight through the jeans. The only thing I can think of trying is food rewards for when she gets 'off' each time and hope the frequency decreases over time. The 'in the toilet' time out was also a suggestion of the puppy school. I am about to take her for a walk so I will pack teh bum bag with treats and when/if (Murphy's law says she wont today!! ) whe does it I will start doing the 'off' command when she releases and reward and see how we go.

[Cosmolo]

I would give a lead correction to the dog the moment she starts to nip and remember to reward her at times when she is not nipping. Dogs do not need to learn bite inhibition by biting/ mouthing people.

[persephone]

When walking her..how is it she HAS enough lead slack to get to your heels?

The lead needs to be JUST slack enough so it is not pulling..but defintitely not slack enough that she can get her head to the ground. Keep her head up and pointing forwards.. just keep walking..not talking to her..and just use leash corrections..her "reward" is the IMMEDIATE leash slackening... and not correcting.

I would also be having her on lead when the kids are playing..that way you can correct any excitement.

if she tends to carry on like a pork chop..you all may need to change the way you react around her

You may need to only touch her/speak to her when she is being calm, with all four feet on the ground... and avoid eye contact when she is being 'silly'..or have her more on lead.

Have you tried this? http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=64101

having a 'working' breed will mean you may have to provide her with lots of walking, interactive toys and a 'job' to do.... plus the frequent, short bursts of training during the day to expend her energy and settlle her down.

remember...an excited training method, or 'gushing' praise and quick movements will hype a dog up.

[Pulilover]

Hi KazC

Just saw this thread.

That's one cute puppy you have there.

I have PM'd you re your puppy nipping.

Make sure you post more photos in the Puli breed sub forum!

[NoodleNut]

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, we do have the lead firm but we are also aware that she is only 13 weeks old tomorrow. I have received mixed advice as to how 'firm' it should be at this age. At 13 weeks of age do you still suggest having the lead that 'tight'?

We do have the lead on her when she is at her most excited times .. i.e kids arriving home from school and they always keep their voices low and don't approach her until her feet are on the ground. No-one is allowed to pat her unless her feet are on the ground - the time taken to allow her to sit down of her own accord is getting less so this seems to be working - no manners - no pat. I haven't seen her mouth other people only us) Problem is that she just can't help herself ... not a lot of self control at 13 weeks. She is not 'loose' in the house unless she is quiet and the frequency of having her off is becoming more as she gets older. Inside she is always on a lead so there is no running around at all and we are able to control her and our children.

Yes, She is getting lots of walks, often 2 - 3 a day with school pick ups and also general walks around the block. Also doing retrieval with her off lead in the back yard (hence she can 'give' as she loves this game). She has masses of toys ... only 3 or 4 out at a time and rotated with the others so it is new and interesting. We have the usual container and box that she also bounces around inside and out and careful to put it in the bin when bits are starting to look like they are coming off.

Only time there is 'gushing praise' is when she is working on 'recall' training and 'retrieval' training and the heel nipping and mouthing is never exhibited then. The rest of the praise is either food reward or firm strokes on the sides of her head or chest in a calming manner with a calm 'good girl!'.

[NoodleNut]

Hi KazC

Just saw this thread.

That's one cute puppy you have there.

I have PM'd you re your puppy nipping.

Make sure you post more photos in the Puli breed sub forum!

Hi!

Thank you for your message.

We think she is pretty special, smart, sweet, mischevious, inquisitive, confident etc ;)

I am going to put some photos on here too .... I haven't worked out the rest of the site as yet but no doubt will - expect LOTS of photos!!

Here is the newest photo taken 5 minutes ago. Noodle is technically 13 weeks tomorrow.

[badboyz]

If it was me, I would likely issue a big angry growl at her, like her mother would. When she backed off I would start walking briskly again with a happy "good girl". When a bitch or other adult corrects a pesky pup, that is what they do. Once the puppy stops all is forgiven and life goes on as usual. If puppy continues, the adult dog may grab the pup's cheek with another growl and that is about as far as it goes. To bend down, put your hands on her, grab her muzzle, roll her over - all takes a lot of time and effort - she has probably forgotten what she did wrong in the first place.

[Steve]

The reward for the dog is when you keep walking or you move this is the reaction desired when a herding dog does this so the first thing you have to do is stop. Our Corgi babies like to have a go at this and when they nipped the kids squealed and ran - made it worse so we trained the kids rather than the dog first. They stop and then shake an empty coke can with some stones it and masking tape over the hole so it makes a nasty sound when shaken .When you walk the dog on lead you need to make it more interested in watching your hands rather than your heels so often a treat as it starts to walk and do the right thing works well too.

[NoodleNut]

The reward for the dog is when you keep walking or you move this is the reaction desired when a herding dog does this so the first thing you have to do is stop. Our Corgi babies like to have a go at this and when they nipped the kids squealed and ran - made it worse so we trained the kids rather than the dog first. They stop and then shake an empty coke can with some stones it and masking tape over the hole so it makes a nasty sound when shaken .When you walk the dog on lead you need to make it more interested in watching your hands rather than your heels so often a treat as it starts to walk and do the right thing works well too.

Thanks for the advice Steve. The kids are really good and we are making sure they are nowhere near her so she can't get to them (and so no problem with the squeals/yelps from them). We have tried the standing still and Noodle seems to think it is fabulous and gets herself into a real frenzy and the behaviour is worse if anything and with no end in sight. I chose to manouvre her lead out to one side so she can't reach and loosen each time she stops trying to head for the heels. (And yes mother 'growls' at each nip or attempted nip) As has been mentioned the rollover is difficult to execute really fast although I am good and prepared when she hits that crazy time.

I do like the idea of the Coke can/bottle filled with stones (I might try the 'off' command when/if she releases too). ;) Today and yesterday we have been taking her 'cow' (soft toy) on a walk with us and putting that in her mouth each time she goes for the heels (less than 1/8th of the time of the walk) and praising her when she takes her cow chews that instead. Noodle doesn't seem to have a strong food drive so food (cheese, bits of sausage, hotdog or bought treats) does not deter her from the heels (and that is when having not eaten for a number of hours). When she mouths we remove herself from us and substitute our 'body part' for a more suitable toy of her own and praise and pat. She loves being close to us and that seems to be a huge motivator. She will go down into drop just to get a pat - quite funny to watch her throw herself to the floor just so she can get a cuddle, pat and have her tummy rubbed - in doggie heaven!!

On a lighter note she has slept through two nights in a row now! I am hoping the 2am toilet stop is a thing of the past. Yes, she was toileted at about 11pm each night (even woke her up before one of us went to bed) .. she is very clever and goes to the toilet (on lead) and straight back in to bed in about 3 minutes, no stuffing around now.

Thanks to everyone that has replied - I do appreciate the advice. Just a matter of finding what works for us and more importantly for Noodle. I have put some photos on the breed sub group (Puli!) if anyone is interested in seeing our Noodle.