Lame Puppy

[woody2shoes]

Hi all,

I have a 6mo lab bitch puppy who has been consistently lame in the left foreleg for 5 weeks now. She has been confined since it commenced. I have had her to two specialists and the general consensus is that it is most likely to be very early Elbow Dysplasia (specifically FCP) but both feel it is too soon to recommend surgery just yet. X-rays so far are clear, no swelling or heat in the joint, some pain on manipulation but nothing drastic, no positive response to anti-inflammatories. She gets a short on lead walk morning and night and gets to swim as much as possible.

She is currently on a course of Cartrophen.

She is to be reviewed in two months' time and if the lameness persists till then, most likely will undergo elbow arthroscopy.

Anyone out there had any experience with this condition and it's treatment (surgical or otherwise)? I'd be interested to hear how other dogs/owners have coped and what types of treatment were recommended.

Thanks in advance...

w2s

[stormie]

Not had this personally, but I knew of someone who's dog had a similar thing but it turned out it had tendonitis?

Goodluck and I hope you get some answers soon!!

[woody2shoes]

Not had this personally, but I knew of someone who's dog had a similar thing but it turned out it had tendonitis?

Goodluck and I hope you get some answers soon!!

I dream about this being something quite inocuous like a strained ligament or tendon!!!! FINGERS (and everything else) CROSSED.

I find the hardest part, without a doubt, is that she isn't allowed to do what pups do best - PLAY!!! Guess I just have to grin and bear it.

Thanks for your feedback.

[ashka1]

Did they check the xrays for OCD?

I would crate the dog and only walk it for toilet purposes for a few weeks and see if enforced rest helps

[CavsRcute]

I went through this with my Cavalier and it was finally diagnosed as very tight trigger points. Went to Pam Short and Mark Hocking at Gladesville Vet and after about 4 treatments was as good as gold. Also saw a cainine physio for exercises which I still do with her

[stormie]

Is the pain in the joint or in the muscle? are any of the joint swollen? Has anyone extracted joint fluid for testing?

It's possible that whatever is the problem just isnt showing up on the xray due to angles etc...

Have you considered a specialist?

[Fit for a King]

Have you only taken the pup to vets? What about a visit to a canine physio? I had a dog that my vet swore had spinal issues - turned out to be twisted tendons in his toes picked up by the physio after only 5 minutes - HUGE difference......with all things mechanical or skeletal I start at the physio first...

Have you also spoken to the breeder to find out if he/she has experienced anything like it?

[woody2shoes]

Have you only taken the pup to vets? What about a visit to a canine physio? I had a dog that my vet swore had spinal issues - turned out to be twisted tendons in his toes picked up by the physio after only 5 minutes - HUGE difference......with all things mechanical or skeletal I start at the physio first...

Have you also spoken to the breeder to find out if he/she has experienced anything like it?

Hi everyone,

I have had her to two specialist surgeons and a physio/sports medicine vet - none of them could definitively say what it is. Two of the three suspect it's early Elbow Dysplasia but aren't prepared to recommend surgery just yet. The third, one of the surgeons, believes it is an idiopathic lameness which will resolve in time.

In answer to some other questions - there is no heat or inflammation in the joint. She showed no response to a course Rimadyl (am about to try Metacam) and there is little if any pain on manipulation. I realise that x-rays can be inconclusive since fragments are often very small and/or hidden. We may try different imaging next time if it is available.

At this point, I am not prepared to opt for surgery based just on someone's 'gut feeling'. Maybe I'm wrong but it makes sense to me that if she is this sore and it is ED, then there should be inflammation at the site which should produce swelling and heat. I am hoping it will all just go away quietly...the risk of course is that if they are right then the sooner we go in and fix the problem, the better the prognosis. Hmmmmmm, what to do?????

The breeders have had some experience with panosteitis with two male lab pups who grew very quickly. Interestingly enough, my girl has also grown very, very quickly and is already at full adult height and weight at just 6mo (and no, she's not overweight, just big boned). I suggested pano to all 3 vets - none of them was prepared to consider it as an option. According to them, typically she is the wrong breed, wrong sex, and presents with the wrong clinical signs. So, back to the drawing board. Now that I know that pano has been an issue in her 'lines' before, it might be something they will consider more seriously if/when I go back.

Thanks again for all your feedback.

w2s

Edited February 25, 2008 by woody2shoes

[shellbyville]

It sounds like you are doing everything possible, as you have taken her to two specialists. I have labs, and had a young bitch that was intermittently lame for quite a few months, we were back and forward to the vet and could never really find anything definitive. My vet also thought it was the onset of OCD. However I took her to a chiropractor and he thought it wasn't in her elbow joint at all, but rather on the point of her shoulder. Possibly from running and slamming into one of our other dogs, and constant exercise just made it worse. I crated her and only walked her for toilet breaks, and we also did - ultrasonic therapy on her(I think that is what it is called). Using ultrasound waves over the shoulder. It took quite a while to fix, if I remember correctly after about 6 weeks she was much better.

It was an aweful time because she had to be crated for so long and like your lab was only about 7 months old. It did work though and she was fine. I don't have her now, but I did have her until she was 2 years old and she never had any lameness again. However I did hip/elbow score her and her elbow scores were 1:1 which is why I rehomed her to a pet home.

[woody2shoes]

It sounds like you are doing everything possible, as you have taken her to two specialists. I have labs, and had a young bitch that was intermittently lame for quite a few months, we were back and forward to the vet and could never really find anything definitive. My vet also thought it was the onset of OCD. However I took her to a chiropractor and he thought it wasn't in her elbow joint at all, but rather on the point of her shoulder. Possibly from running and slamming into one of our other dogs, and constant exercise just made it worse. I crated her and only walked her for toilet breaks, and we also did - ultrasonic therapy on her(I think that is what it is called). Using ultrasound waves over the shoulder. It took quite a while to fix, if I remember correctly after about 6 weeks she was much better.

It was an aweful time because she had to be crated for so long and like your lab was only about 7 months old. It did work though and she was fine. I don't have her now, but I did have her until she was 2 years old and she never had any lameness again. However I did hip/elbow score her and her elbow scores were 1:1 which is why I rehomed her to a pet home.

That's good to hear! I am really, really hoping all will be well in time. Thanks for your feedback.

[woody2shoes]

I have an update in case this is of interest/help to anyone else out there.

In desperation following a total of 8 weeks' constant lameness, I sought yet a third specialist's opinion last Monday. He immediately diagnosed it as Fragmented Coronoid Process (a type of Elbow Dysplasia not uncommon in young labs) in both elbows and recommended CT Scans. These showed a definite fragment in the left elbow and some anomalies in the right. He operated on her the same day, removing a free floating fragment of cartilage from the left joint, and excising another 'fracture' which had not yet broken off from the right.

She is due to have her bandages removed tomorrow and is already vastly improved. In fact, I would say she was 75% better the day following surgery and apart from some initial tenderness, has gone great guns ever since. Whilst it was very, very disappointing to hear the diagnosis at the time, at least I have been able to resolve the problem and she is much brighter for it.

It will be a slow and lengthy rehabilitation if I ever want her to be able to work but she will be given every opportunity to improve. Fingers crossed the outcome will be a good one. I know I can expect early arthritis but with regular 6-monthly Pentosan as part of routine maintenance, together with daily joint supplements, and careful exercise and weight management for the rest of her life, I am optimistic. The ortho surgeon was guarded in his prognosis but having seen badly affected dogs improve remarkably well over time, I hold great hope for my pup.

Thanks to all who shared their advice/experience earlier in this saga.

Cheers,

w2s

[shellbyville]

Hi Woody2shoes, I am sorry to hear about your puppies elbow dysplasia. It must have been heartbreaking for you. It is so good to hear you kept looking into it and went to another specialist and you have had success. There is nothing worse than seeing a dog in pain! Good on you for your positive outlook as well. I am sure your pup will continue to improve and hopefully will lead a normal pain free life! Well done! I am off to google 'Fragmented Coroniod Process' now!

[lucknow]

Good news to at least know what you were facing and able to take assertive action.

Who was specialist who operated?

[woody2shoes]

Good news to at least know what you were facing and able to take assertive action.

Who was specialist who operated?

Hi,

She was operated on by Wing Tip Wong at Werribee and I couldn't be happier. I understand that he has, amongst other things, a long history in treating Guide Dogs so his knowledge of and experience with ED is obviously extensive. In any case, he came highly recommended and I am very happy with how things panned out.

He was extremely thorough in his assessment and I really liked the way in which he talked everything through along the way. I had done a lot of research into both ED and Pano and he spoke to me with that in mind. And, most importantly, he didn't try to convince me of anything, just gave me the facts and let me decide.

I must admit I had hoped all along to have the keyhole surgery done on my pup but in the end, it became more important to resolve her lameness issues quickly and, most importantly, to find someone who I believed would be 100% approachable during my pup's rehab since we live 4 hours from Melbourne. I suspect there may be a few phone calls along the way! Thankfully, Wing Tip fit the bill.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him to anyone.

Cheers,

w2s

Edited March 16, 2008 by woody2shoes

[woody2shoes]

I am off to google 'Fragmented Coroniod Process' now!

Hi Shelbyville,

You should get about a million hits! There is a lot of information out there on the subject...happy reading!!!

w2s

[puggy_puggy]

Wow am glad that she was finally diagnosed correctly and the surgery has already made such a vast improvement. I have good things about Wing Tip Wong. I would probably put her on some sort of glucosamine or joint suppliment.

You stated in your first post that you had confined her since the start of the lameness with short walks in the morning. This is not what confinment is. Confinement is being in a crate or pen 24/7 and only going out to the toilet on a lead and then straight back in. Going for walks is not confinment.

[woody2shoes]

Wow am glad that she was finally diagnosed correctly and the surgery has already made such a vast improvement. I have good things about Wing Tip Wong. I would probably put her on some sort of glucosamine or joint suppliment.

You stated in your first post that you had confined her since the start of the lameness with short walks in the morning. This is not what confinment is. Confinement is being in a crate or pen 24/7 and only going out to the toilet on a lead and then straight back in. Going for walks is not confinment.

Hi puggy-puggy,

I have to tell you that I tried everything.

She was initially crate/pen confined 24/7 for 4 weeks straight with nothing but on lead toilet walks and this made absolutely no difference to the degree of lameness. I then took her to Melbourne for a second opinion and this specialist told me she should be pen confined but could be walked quietly on lead for 5 minutes in the morning as part of her 'toilet' walk. Since she clearly had found no relief from full crate confinement, there seemed little point in persisting with that line of attack. Again, no difference to the degree of lameness.

From the first day she pulled up lame to the day she was operated on, she showed no improvement to any conservative treatments. None of the NSAI (both Rimadyl and Metacam were tried) made any difference and the Pentosan (Cartrophen) injections she received had no effect. It became very clear to me that this was something which, left undiagnosed and untreated, couldn't possibly be doing her joints any good.

She has been on joint supplements since she came to us at 8wo and her weight and exercise have been routinely managed as par for the course with lab pups. And, she's been on the very best premium dog food I could find for large/giant breed pups. In the end, it came down to doing something to ease her discomfort. It was constant and without relief for 8 weeks...I couldn't bear it in the end. Looking in her eyes now, she is a different dog.

I am just glad she has found relief at long last. From eveything I've read about moderate to severe FCP, having been operated on at such an early age seems to be the best way to proceed.

I hope this clears things up for you.

w2s

[ILuvAmstaffs]

I went through a similar thing with my boy Diesel. He has FCP & had it operated on at around 8 months. We had some difficulty getting it diagnosed, so took him to the Specialist Referral Clinic at Sydney Uni where they actually saw the fragment on the first set of x-rays (the original vet had missed it) he was operated on a few days later. I still kick myself for not having worked harder trying to find a diagnosis earlier as it may have made quite a difference in the severity of his arthritis.

Here is the thread I posted back when we were going thru it all. I'm not sure how much is useful, but might be reassuring to read. We are now around 14months post-op & he barely has a limp... unless you were looking for it, most people never pic up on it.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=80629

Also, I would recommend a supplement called Flexicose as well as Ester C Tabs. This combination has made a world of difference to Diesel.

[woody2shoes]

I went through a similar thing with my boy Diesel. He has FCP & had it operated on at around 8 months. We had some difficulty getting it diagnosed, so took him to the Specialist Referral Clinic at Sydney Uni where they actually saw the fragment on the first set of x-rays (the original vet had missed it) he was operated on a few days later. I still kick myself for not having worked harder trying to find a diagnosis earlier as it may have made quite a difference in the severity of his arthritis.

Here is the thread I posted back when we were going thru it all. I'm not sure how much is useful, but might be reassuring to read. We are now around 14months post-op & he barely has a limp... unless you were looking for it, most people never pic up on it.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=80629

Also, I would recommend a supplement called Flexicose as well as Ester C Tabs. This combination has made a world of difference to Diesel.

Wow! That's a hell of a thread! Well done for persisting and seeking answers. I wouldn't berate myself for 'not having worked harder' - you did what seemed right at the time. You can't possibly do any more than that.

I know exactly what you've been through and I fully understand your frustrations but in the end, persistence certainly paid off for you. I certainly have no regrets having gone to 3 different specialists (though my OH thought I was a bit loopy!) You have to do what you have to do...at the end of the day, our dogs only have us to look after them.

I am really excited about my girls' prognosis having read about Diesel. Thanks for letting me in on your experience.

w2s

[Optimus]

Hi W2S

I was searching through the forum for information on orthopedic surgeons and lame dogs. I am in a similar situation, my dog landed awkwardly from a fall, and his back leg had been hippity-hop ever since. 3 months now. We have also tried a course of Pentosan and rimydal, and even anti-biotics for a another condition. Nothing, and a complete personality change. I am seeing Dr Wing Tip Wong tomorrow, and hope that his injury can be resolved without major surgery. It's really great to hear your story, and experiences. Hope your dog recovers fast.

Opyimus