An Idea; "the Ultimate Dol Raw/prey Diet Information" Thread

[westiemum]

Hey thanks everyone - really appreciate the advice - a friend who is also interested in swapping to raw feeding adn I are going to have a go together - even though I already raw feed I'd much rather try more raw meat if I can.

Thanks again,

Cheers,

Westiemum

[Tatelina]

Took me a while to get through all the info and links but I did it!

Good thread! Thanks for clearing it up!

[westiemum]

Hi Guys,

Well we are making excellent progress - my friend and I have hunted out chicken frames, offal, lamb flaps so far - and I'm gradually introducing more prey type foods (if I've got the gist of it correctly from this thread). My guys had half a huge chicken frame each tonight for the first time - and they LOVED it!! Absolutley wolfed it down (if you'll pardon the pun!).

They aren't that keen on offal, but they did eat it eventually - and they adored the lamb flaps... so thanks for an excellent thread. My friend is gradually introducing a more prey diet to her Dally with red itchy skin and he seems to be better already...

Only one query - as I've said before I'm terrified my boy westie will put on weight and then my darling vet will have my guts for garters!! :) .

So please could anyone advise some quantities suitable for westies? 8-9 kg dogs? Eg is half a large chicken frame about right do you think? At least to start with?

Thanks

Westiemum :D

[niki schaef]

Only one query - as I've said before I'm terrified my boy westie will put on weight and then my darling vet will have my guts for garters!! :) .

So please could anyone advise some quantities suitable for westies? 8-9 kg dogs? Eg is half a large chicken frame about right do you think? At least to start with?

hi great to hear that its all going well.

as for the weight thing- i've found it really easy to maintain Teds weight. he was 8.3kg when i took him to the vet for his vaccinations in Oct. they told me he was a bit overweight. not long after this i made the switch to raw. ted lost that extra bit of weight really quickly BUT i had to take him to the vet on friday and he only weighs 7.6kg :D i was so surprised he doesnt look skinny at all so he must have been a real porker before! hes pretty muscly now too. but anyway all i'm trying to say is that its easy to maintain weight on the raw diet.

i work out Teds food to be about 200gm a day. if i give him chicken frame it would probably be a half (if thats all hes getting) or a smaller piece plus something else (like a bit of organ etc.) so yes i think half a frame should be fine to start with. there isnt a lot of meat on a frame so you may notice your dogs poop get a bit hard/white. i did with Ted so thats why i will usually feed a smaller piece of frame with some organ, or will feed frame if i notice his poop is a bit soft.

keep it up your dog will thank it for you

[westiemum]

Thanks very much Niki - very helpful. And yes - we'll keep going until we get it right. Watcing them both enjoy their chicken frame tonight was a real joy!

Cheers,

Westiemum :D

Only one query - as I've said before I'm terrified my boy westie will put on weight and then my darling vet will have my guts for garters!! .

So please could anyone advise some quantities suitable for westies? 8-9 kg dogs? Eg is half a large chicken frame about right do you think? At least to start with?

hi great to hear that its all going well.

as for the weight thing- i've found it really easy to maintain Teds weight. he was 8.3kg when i took him to the vet for his vaccinations in Oct. they told me he was a bit overweight. not long after this i made the switch to raw. ted lost that extra bit of weight really quickly BUT i had to take him to the vet on friday and he only weighs 7.6kg i was so surprised he doesnt look skinny at all so he must have been a real porker before! hes pretty muscly now too. but anyway all i'm trying to say is that its easy to maintain weight on the raw diet.

i work out Teds food to be about 200gm a day. if i give him chicken frame it would probably be a half (if thats all hes getting) or a smaller piece plus something else (like a bit of organ etc.) so yes i think half a frame should be fine to start with. there isnt a lot of meat on a frame so you may notice your dogs poop get a bit hard/white. i did with Ted so thats why i will usually feed a smaller piece of frame with some organ, or will feed frame if i notice his poop is a bit soft.

keep it up your dog will thank it for you

[Steve]

The first advice I'd give anyone contemplating a raw or prey diet is to buy some books and do their homework.

Good as the advice is here, I think it pays to do your own research.

I 100% agree with this.

The thing to remember when feeding a raw diet is that while it involves changing what you feed, it more than anything involves changing HOW YOU THINK about feeding.

Raw diets are NOT about recipes. They are not one size fits all or follow the plan on the bag type diets. Instead they involve a set of principles on which you can base how you feed your dogs. You need to understand the principles first as they will guide everything you do.

I fully understand that some people need their hand held a lot more than that. It can take time to change the way you think about how you feed and it is not always easy (although reading at least one book and following the principles in it is a good way to start). But in the end, when it comes to a raw diet, you HAVE to do the reading and understand WHY you are feeding like that as well as knowing the types of things you can feed.

Well said.

Because we have been educated by dog food companies we stress more over feeding our dogs than we do about feeding our kids.

How much do we feed our dogs? Some people stress like mad over this and they want a set amount per weight and feel they cant do this until they have the formula.

So we give them a formula but is not really the formula because the formula doesnt really exist because every dog is different and needs its own formula.

How much do we feed a 5 year old child ? Ive had 8 kids, 2 step kids, a couple of foster kids and 13 grand kids and I couldn't tell you how much a 5 year old eats as a percentage of their body weight. Ive got an 11 year old now who I think is a bottomless pit and Ive no idea how much he eats in a day . How much per percentae of your bodyy weight did you eat today? You know people at different life stages need different energy levels but we want a formula for dogs

Then we worry that we havent got everything they need covered so we want recipes and plans which we want to stick to rigidly to be sure we're doing the right thing yet we know we cant do that for a child or for us - we know we have to feed them variety ,lots of different foods in small amounts . If I had one recipe I fed myself and my kids I know its a stupid thing to do but yet some people feed the same food or recipe every single feed because they think this way they can give them every thing they need every time.

The biggest problem that you get when ever you start talking about this is that some people advise others and they dont have it all themselves.

There's an article coming up in the MDBA newsletter this month re some of the mistakes people make in feeding BARF instigated by some threads here on dogz where people are sure they have it right. We also have courses on Feeding the family Dog and Advanced Canine Nutrition.

[Guest Tess32]

I think the percentage guideline should just be recommended as a GUIDELINE. I had NO idea how much to even begin feeding so you do need some kind of guideline rather that you can tweak once you know you're dog rather than just randomly start feeding them either way too much or too little.

[corvus]

We do vegies, so I guess not really technically what you want for this thread, but thought I'd mention the big pet store in Caringbah, Sutherland Shire sells kangaroo shanks for about $4.50 a kilo. They're a real hit with Penny, and don't cause the constipation the lamb offcuts have been causing. I think it's a matter of bone to meat ratio for her. She doesn't seem to cope well with large amounts of bone these days. Pork hocks are also a favourite of hers. She's not a real fan of chicken, though.

[westiemum]

Hi Steve,

Good post - agree entirely.

Agree there is no formula - its basically what suits each dog.

I certainly stressed 18 months ago when I had a fat doggie and was under great vet pressure to reduce his weight - and its the best thing I've ever done for him - but after failing with diet dry food what I did was very unconventional but it worked - and his weight fell off - and you know when your dogs are happy and healthy. And so now I just want to to introduce more variety - but without undoing all our hard work - so some rough guidelines don't hurt.

Yes it is interesting how much we stress over our dogs diet - yet kids are filled up with processed food... hmn... food for thought :D

Cheers,

Westiemum :D

The first advice I'd give anyone contemplating a raw or prey diet is to buy some books and do their homework.

Good as the advice is here, I think it pays to do your own research.

I 100% agree with this.

The thing to remember when feeding a raw diet is that while it involves changing what you feed, it more than anything involves changing HOW YOU THINK about feeding.

Raw diets are NOT about recipes. They are not one size fits all or follow the plan on the bag type diets. Instead they involve a set of principles on which you can base how you feed your dogs. You need to understand the principles first as they will guide everything you do.

I fully understand that some people need their hand held a lot more than that. It can take time to change the way you think about how you feed and it is not always easy (although reading at least one book and following the principles in it is a good way to start). But in the end, when it comes to a raw diet, you HAVE to do the reading and understand WHY you are feeding like that as well as knowing the types of things you can feed.

Well said.

Because we have been educated by dog food companies we stress more over feeding our dogs than we do about feeding our kids.

How much do we feed our dogs? Some people stress like mad over this and they want a set amount per weight and feel they cant do this until they have the formula.

So we give them a formula but is not really the formula because the formula doesnt really exist because every dog is different and needs its own formula.

How much do we feed a 5 year old child ? Ive had 8 kids, 2 step kids, a couple of foster kids and 13 grand kids and I couldn't tell you how much a 5 year old eats as a percentage of their body weight. Ive got an 11 year old now who I think is a bottomless pit and Ive no idea how much he eats in a day . How much per percentae of your bodyy weight did you eat today? You know people at different life stages need different energy levels but we want a formula for dogs

Then we worry that we havent got everything they need covered so we want recipes and plans which we want to stick to rigidly to be sure we're doing the right thing yet we know we cant do that for a child or for us - we know we have to feed them variety ,lots of different foods in small amounts . If I had one recipe I fed myself and my kids I know its a stupid thing to do but yet some people feed the same food or recipe every single feed because they think this way they can give them every thing they need every time.

The biggest problem that you get when ever you start talking about this is that some people advise others and they dont have it all themselves.

There's an article coming up in the MDBA newsletter this month re some of the mistakes people make in feeding BARF instigated by some threads here on dogz where people are sure they have it right. We also have courses on Feeding the family Dog and Advanced Canine Nutrition.

[corvus]

Oh, and Westiemum, Penny is 8kg (small corgi). I aim to feed her between 350 and 400 grams a day, but honestly, it's so easy to maintain weight on raw. Much easier than on kibble. If Penny's looking a little broader than I like her, I cut back a bit. If she's getting a bit thin, I obviously feed her a little more. It takes very little time for her to respond to a changed amount. If you feed something bigger than the daily alotment, it's no big deal to feed them only a snack or nothing at all the next day. You'll get a feel for it very quickly.

[westiemum]

Thanks Corvus - yep agree entirely about dry food - once I switched to a modified barf raw diet the weight fell off my boy - and its the best thing I've ever done for him (and his arthritis and ACL repair). So now his weight is stable, I want to introduce more whole (ish) prey type foods - and don't they LOVE chicken frames - and they ate kidney tonight without the performance of last week!! (Worse than toddlers!! :p ). So I'm just introducing something new a week and taking it quietly... and we're doing very well!!

Thanks again,

Westiemum

[New Age Outlaw]

I confess that when I switched to an all raw diet with my dogs I was a bit worried about their weight going down, but several weeks in they are stable and they are loving it. Fortunately mine are not fussy - in fact I often say they would eat dirt if you put it in a bowl and told them it was food - they have eaten everything I have put in front of them so far. They particularly love the chook frames! A big thanks to DOL generally and especially many of the contributors to this thread for the info and guidance that gave me the confidence to make the change.

[mercedes76]

Hi new to the forum here and I find all this unreal reading thanks to all the experts out there. I'm an information glutton but for me it goes something like how I deal with my human kids...has to feel right!

My partner's beautiful english Staffy Casi (whom I have 'adopted' as my own as well) has just had 10 pups of which 9 are alive. We are so proud of her.

I have always been a big believer in raw meat being the main focus of a dogs diet. When i had my first dog sadly which i had to put down many years ago all i fed him was raw meat, and at times left overs from dinner. He was incredibly healthy and I never had any problems with him health wise.

I don't like my kids having junk food every day and in my eyes feeding your dog processed canned or dry food is something like feeding your kids Macdonald's every day VERY bad. We keep the dried food and some cans but they are for emergencies as we live out of town but to be honest she hates the stuff and will wait for something else before eating it.

I do have a question in that now that she has had quite a large litter some advice to supplementing her diet so she can cope would be great, the vets sold us milk formula for the puppies but we are more into simply making sure that she is well fed and able to produce enough milk for all of them herself instead of us forcing the milk down the poor little pups throats.

I have actually been giving her the formula as she is not drinking much water and seems to enjoy the milk more?? She has become very fussy with her food at the moment and use to eat just about anything (as in scraps from our dinners) but that is not to her taste. She still loves her chicken and kangaroo tails and minced meat as well as I have been feeding her at least one egg a day.

Is there anything extra at this time with her lactating that would help her keep up to the demands of feeding so many? I hope I have put this in the right spot as I know from what i have just written she is not on a complete pure meat diet at this time but it is because I believe at the moment she needs extra ANY advice would be great and I apologise if this is in the wrong spot.

Cheers

[niki schaef]

i'm no expert at all on feeding mum dogs- but i believe they need lots of calcium to keep up with demand from the pups. so maybe some extra bones? again no expert really i have no idea just taking a guess

if you dont get any replies here you could try the breeders section there is a wealth of knowledge there that could help you out. (also maybe some piccies of the staffy and pups )

and welcome to dogzonline

Edited May 25, 2008 by niki schaef

[Tiggy]

Just wondering if any of the 'raw/prey model' feeders add any supplements. I've just had a good read of a few 'raw/prey model' websites and they say there's no need except for maybe fish oil. Also what raw meaty bones are meaty enough with out adding extra meat.

[hopenfox]

Just wondering if any of the 'raw/prey model' feeders add any supplements. I've just had a good read of a few 'raw/prey model' websites and they say there's no need except for maybe fish oil. Also what raw meaty bones are meaty enough with out adding extra meat.

Fish oil is only really needed if you're unable to find enough grass fed meat to provide omega 3s in the diet. Here in Australia I think most of our lamb and beef and of course kangaroo and rabbit are grass fed, so FO shouldn't really be needed unless your dog's main diet is chicken.

I don't use FO at the moment, instead I feed as much grass fed red meat as I can find, and a raw salmon head or bunch of fresh sardines once or twice a week.

Recently I've noticed one of my dogs has dandruff, so I'll be upping his whole raw eggs to maybe three a week for a while and see how I go. If no change, then I'll be trying the fish oil...

Whole raw meaty bones - pork shoulder roasts, lamb leg roasts, most other roasts, maybe whole chickens or turkeys but they'll need more meat added in the long run, whole raw fish, and maybe lamb shanks and pork hocks (a little high on bone).

Perfect would be a whole prey animal (lamb, goat) chopped into pieces and fed until gone.

I've found it's much easier to go with a not-so-meaty bone like a lamb neck or chicken frame, with added boneless meat.

One of my dogs gets a tiny bit of meaty bone with a separate hunk of meat every day, and the other dog gets a meaty bone one day, then a boneless chunk the next. Every dog is different...

Examples of (affordable) boneless meat would be Ox tongue, beef heart and lamb heart, but if you look around, I'm sure you could find others - some butchers sell off-cuts that can be quite meaty.

[Tiggy]

Thanks for the reply . I got some really meaty turkey drumsticks today. Are they okay to feed? I know they're a weight bearing bone but they're softer than a beef leg etc. My dogs have no trouble with them. My dogs love lamb hearts. Since they're classed as a muscle meat can I feed more of them than I would liver or kidney?

[Tiggy]

I've been feeding my Staffords two whole eggs a week. Is this ok?

[cassie]

forgot to ask if anyone in adelaide feeds raw and knows where to get 'weird stuff' ( eg rabbit, deer, goat etc) could they let me know?

Ooooh yes please let me know also Have just started feeding BARF/prey model (I am only beginning, as in have only started this week, so am still working out exactly what I and the dogs prefer) so still getting the hang of it all, and am very keenly cheeking out all the butchers and supermarkets near me.

Yep schaef Ness gets raw . I have an Adelaide supplier of goat :D .

Can I ask who/where Ness?

[hopenfox]

Thanks for the reply smile.gif . I got some really meaty turkey drumsticks today. Are they okay to feed? I know they're a weight bearing bone but they're softer than a beef leg etc. My dogs have no trouble with them.

Turkey drumsticks are great to feed - only the legs of huge animals that support a lot of weight are too hard to feed, like cow, buffalo, camel, deer, and maybe emu. Turkey, chicken, rabbit, goat, kangaroo & sheep legs are all fine to feed.

My dogs love lamb hearts. Since they're classed as a muscle meat can I feed more of them than I would liver or kidney?

Definitely, hearts can be fed as much or as often as you like...they are a little richer than normal muscle meat, so you may have to keep an eye on bowel tolerance if you feed a lot at once.

I've been feeding my Staffords two whole eggs a week. Is this ok?

Yep! Eggs can be fed every day if the dog can handle it.