B-Q Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 thinking about ordering one of her books next week. Was doing some google searches on her and found a convo on another forum that her methods were "too harsh" and "too strict" So far what I've read I'm pretty happy with, but other things make me wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Carthy Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I suppose if a new dog owner reads her stuff they would be impressed - shes one of our very good buisness women writers though - heres some UK feedback from about 3 years ago - 1 http://direcases.tripod.com/fennel/jf1 2 http://direcases.tripod.com/fennel/2 3 http://direcases.tripod.com/fennel/3 4 http://direcases.tripod.com/fennel/4 5 http://direcases.tripod.com/fennel/5 6 http://direcases.tripod.com/fennel/6 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I've fed a few of her books and am definately not a fan. Her method is called "Amichien Bonding", which she claims she invented after watching lots of videos on how wild wolves interact. Basically, it's just a list of rules to follow when interacting with your dog - ignore it when you first come home from work, don't let it pull on the leash, always eat before your dog eats, etc. The idea is that your dog will then naturally recognise you as the alpha and respect you. IMO this method would probably be some use to owners whose dogs don't respect them, but on the other hand, the owner consistantly enforcing ANY rules would probably be beneficial in that circumstances. NILIF or TOT would do exactly the same thing. And getting your dog's "respect" isn't exactly the end all of dog training - you still need a way to actually teach him what you want, and motivate him to do it. Jan Fennel doesn't cover that at all in her books. It's like she thinks that if your dog respects you, your dog will somehow automatically know exactly what you want. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinGus Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I found she had some good ideas, but a very confusing way of conveying those ideas. She waffles a lot and I had to think hard to try and figure out what exactly was the crux of what she was doing. As Amhailte said, I found her methods a lot like TOT and NLIF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Buster love her methods were "too harsh" and "too strict" absolutely nothing harsh or strict about amichien bonding. If you find dog listeners in your area and contact them ( google) they have books for sale. Jan Fennell suggests using the library to find a copy,you will find it there or you can order it. There are a few books, 'The practical dog listener" is also a good book to order, read in conjunction with 'The dog listener'. There are DVD's too. The one from the ABC shops are not the same as the ones on her own website. Her method is called "Amichien Bonding", which she claims she invented after watching lots of videos on how wild wolves interact she does watch videos yes... however a lot of her year is spent in Yellowstone national Park. Basically, it's just a list of rules to follow when interacting with your dog - ignore it when you first come home from work, don't let it pull on the leash, always eat before your dog eats, etc. The idea is that your dog will then naturally recognise you as the alpha and respect you Basically you have not understood the book And getting your dog's "respect" isn't exactly the end all of dog training She is not a dog trainer, does not describe herself as a dog trainer...The bonding is about living happily with your dog. Total bonding needs to be in place before training, it is separate. If you are wanting to have fun with dog sport or compete in obedience then happy home life needs to be in place first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 (edited) I borrowed one of her books a few years ago from a library and didn't read past the first chapter. See this link for a good list of available books http://www.clickersolutions.com/reading.htm PS - there wasn't anything harsh or strict in the 1st chapter, the book just plain didnt interest me Edited February 22, 2008 by helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I borrowed one of her books a few years ago from a library and didn't read past the first chapter.See this link for a good list of available books http://www.clickersolutions.com/reading.htm PS - there wasn't anything harsh or strict in the 1st chapter, the book just plain didnt interest me :p ;) I think Culture Clash is so much more informative that any of the Jan Fennell's books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 (edited) [ Basically, it's just a list of rules to follow when interacting with your dog - ignore it when you first come home from work, don't let it pull on the leash, always eat before your dog eats, etc. The idea is that your dog will then naturally recognise you as the alpha and respect you Basically you have not understood the book Uh huh, right. :D If you think I've misinterpreted the message of the book, feel free to post what you got from it, I'd be interested to hear what important and original training information I somehow missed. she does watch videos yes... however a lot of her year is spent in Yellowstone national Park. She spent time studying wild wolves in Yellowstone Park even before she invented "Amichien Bonding"? Because I had the impression that this was something she's only had a chance to do since becoming famous. If you are wanting to have fun with dog sport or compete in obedience then happy home life needs to be in place first. The vast majority of dog owners, even those not interested in dogsport, still want a dog who reliably obeys basic commands and Jan Fennell's methods don't teach someone how to achieve that. Hence my comment that her methods were not a complete system of dog training. I still think that is a fair and relevant comment about her system. But each to their own, I guess it's good for the OP to hear both sides of the story before she spends her hard earned money on books. I certainly don't think Jan Fennell's books are the worst stuff out there, and I don't think they're too "harsh" or "strict", but I do think there are better books on the subject - including most of the books that Helen posted. :D Edited February 22, 2008 by Amhailte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 She spent time studying wild wolves in Yellowstone Park even before she invented "Amichien Bonding yes she did If you think I've misinterpreted the message of the book, feel free to post what you got from it, I'd be interested to hear what important and original training information I somehow missed I told you already it is not a training manual, it is information about living with your dog, communicating with your dog. I read a few of her books and then decided to go to a seminar, from that I went to the 2 day foundation course. It would take me a while to explain what I got out of it. I understand that there are people who dislike positive training, I have no idea why. Jan Fennells bonding works absolutely perfectly with positive training. I certainly wasn't her star pupil, I asked too many questions which I think was seen as hackling rather than trying to understand. A girl I know and myself met up by accident at the foundation course and we regularly think things through together. The 'a dog is a dog don't worry about the breed' thing had us in deep discussion during lunch break on the first day. Our question was regarding particular drive say Border collies or GSD whcih have been streamlined for their type of work, the ratters, the herders ,the guardians. It seemed to be a question not previously asked and I am not quite sure we got a satisfactory answer but certainly made her think. She is a very nice lady and not hung up on her fame at all. She doesn't care if people buy her stuff, she does want people to read and make up their own mind, her books are available at the library. The bottom line is that your dog(s) and yourself form a bond through a process of communication which is simple but takes quite a bit of headbanging sometimes to understand then maybe about one particular area the penny drops. We saw one video which had a profound effect on me of a babysitter with some cubs. The cubs were about 6 months old, they were learning skills to help them survive totally protected by the pack. I suddenly realised the expectation we have of a 6 month old puppy. Some pups in our society are already dumped in shelters at 6 months after living in a home for just a couple of months. I have one here now, taken to the vet to be PTS because he rolled over and peed all the time. 24hrs in my home no fear peeing, he has absolutely nothing to be fearful about. I am his babysitter and teacher. I will protect him whilst allowing him to safely explore the world, when he moves to his new home I will try very hard to explain how to behave and will keep in touch. I did all that pre Jan Fennell but she has given me skills and ways to pass the information on, she is a great communicator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonmedia Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I suppose if a new dog owner reads her stuff they would be impressed - shes one of our very good buisness women writers though - heres some UK feedback from about 3 years ago - 1 http://direcases.tripod.com/fennel/jf1 2 http://direcases.tripod.com/fennel/2 3 http://direcases.tripod.com/fennel/3 4 http://direcases.tripod.com/fennel/4 5 http://direcases.tripod.com/fennel/5 6 http://direcases.tripod.com/fennel/6 . [i attended one of /her seminars here in Qld. Yes she is a pure busiuness woman who has a few bright ideasd which she claims as her own. One of her original ideas we have been using for over 20 years. Enough to say I was very disappointed as myself and 125 of my trainers went hoping to learn something new or to at least have confirmed what we thought we knew. So disappointing, most of us left. The two who remained, dsaid she had a lady in tears before the SHOW was over. Bonmedia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke GSP Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I think we need to be careful not to mix up behaviour and obedience? To my understanding Jan Fennels method is to alter behaviour and pretty much nothing to do with tricks or learned actions/obedience? I had a bit of a nightmare puppy untill we applied amichien bonding and within 48 hours it was like an alien had abducted him and replaced him with a saint. The best analogy I can think of is that behaviour it is like your child knowing that they should not push you aside or grab your food from your hand as opposed to my child reciting his times tables? IMHO, does that make sense?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonmedia Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 thinking about ordering one of her books next week. Was doing some google searches on her and found a convo on another forum that her methods were "too harsh" and "too strict" So far what I've read I'm pretty happy with, but other things make me wonder. I'm sorry I did enter a comment earlier this evening and I made a typing blitz./ Shoul;d read 15 trainers NOT 125. Bonmedia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 So far what I've read I'm pretty happy with, but other things make me wonder I agree with your comments about your trainers leaving, barkbusters left the seminar I went to. We were just 7 trainers from our dog club at the seminar I attended and absolutely loved the afternoon which encouraged me to attend the foundation course. What I would say about the foundation course is that on that course we were told that to attend the second it is invitational only. I doubt that I or my agility friend would be invited. We had a few trainers at the 2 day course from other parts of the state, one girl said to me 'have you learned anything?' I certainly did not learn anything at all about dog training, it wasn't a motivational dog training course. I learned a lot about myself over the next few days as I assimilated the information. There are aspects of course which we have all been using for donkeys years, some is not anything new. I learned that wolves are not aggressive and that if they are they don't survive even the alphas, that was interesting. There is so much to take in that after the seminar my head was hurting and nothing at all about dog obedience, it wasn't even mentioned. To my understanding Jan Fennels method is to alter behaviour and pretty much nothing to do with tricks or learned actions/obedience that's right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 (edited) Bonmedia just having a read of the links you gave, that forum would give out Troy a run for his money I must read some more. Do you think we all sound like that when people from OS read our site whilst accidentally coming across it? Gee I hope not. What a hoot, looks like guns at dawn Edited February 27, 2008 by Rusky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Bonmedia just having a read of the links you gave ... Rusky ..... I think they are Denis' links, not Bonmedia's. All the same, I agree. Sounds like a lot of people who are certainly not open to discussion ................ or learning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Bonmedia just having a read of the links you gave ... Rusky ..... I think they are Denis' links, not Bonmedia's. All the same, I agree. Sounds like a lot of people who are certainly not open to discussion ................ or learning? Yes sorry I realised they were Denis's links later. I looked at the forum and Denis is a member I saw a few of his posts. Wasn't really much about Jan Fennell but it was entertaining reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I personaly feel the only harsh thing about Jan Fennels methods are that it can be emotionaly harsh on the owner who is used to giving free attention out all the time. The simple act of ignoring a dog is next to impossible for some people. I think her methods are fine, tried them with a number of foster dogs without any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now