Artemis Fresh Mix

[Guest Tess32]

I believe that the ingredient % are hard to work out so yep, I think there is a good chance there is. IMO of course.

You can't tell what food contains the most protein until the ingredients are converted to dry matter. Moisture content is diff.

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Ah FTPO you have allergy problems too?

Orb has been itchy since the day he came home to me at 10wks. It's really frustrating isnt it...

Have you tried the Eukanuba FP? the ingredients aren't bad and its recommended by the specialists over the Hills Z/D as an elimination diet.

Generally the food trial has to go for about 12 weeks to know if it works...

Yep we sure do - you have no idea all the things I have tried.

Yet I do not think diet has ever been an issue, as Benson's skin problems started quite suddenly in Mid Nov. But the reason I personally wanted to put Benson on EP Duck was because at that stage it was the best you could get in Australia and thought having a single protein source might assist with his body coping with the allergies and was crossing fingers that the oatmeal also might be beneficial.

However I am seeing changes in Benson since we saw Dr Stevenson - he has heaps more energy and he said that would happen with the treatment so just a matter of time to see how he does - I am quietly optomistic that this will fix him completely as he was so very confident that this will repair his immune system and that will then allow his body to fix itself.

[stormie]

Ah FTPO you have allergy problems too?

Orb has been itchy since the day he came home to me at 10wks. It's really frustrating isnt it...

Have you tried the Eukanuba FP? the ingredients aren't bad and its recommended by the specialists over the Hills Z/D as an elimination diet.

Generally the food trial has to go for about 12 weeks to know if it works...

Yep we sure do - you have no idea all the things I have tried.

Yet I do not think diet has ever been an issue, as Benson's skin problems started quite suddenly in Mid Nov. But the reason I personally wanted to put Benson on EP Duck was because at that stage it was the best you could get in Australia and thought having a single protein source might assist with his body coping with the allergies and was crossing fingers that the oatmeal also might be beneficial.

However I am seeing changes in Benson since we saw Dr Stevenson - he has heaps more energy and he said that would happen with the treatment so just a matter of time to see how he does - I am quietly optomistic that this will fix him completely as he was so very confident that this will repair his immune system and that will then allow his body to fix itself.

All the best!! We recently went to a dermatology siminar thing at the uni, and both dermatologists there said they had seen improvements in atopic (seasonal allergies) dogs when they were put on hypoallergenic diets!!

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Ah FTPO you have allergy problems too?

Orb has been itchy since the day he came home to me at 10wks. It's really frustrating isnt it...

Have you tried the Eukanuba FP? the ingredients aren't bad and its recommended by the specialists over the Hills Z/D as an elimination diet.

Generally the food trial has to go for about 12 weeks to know if it works...

Yep we sure do - you have no idea all the things I have tried.

Yet I do not think diet has ever been an issue, as Benson's skin problems started quite suddenly in Mid Nov. But the reason I personally wanted to put Benson on EP Duck was because at that stage it was the best you could get in Australia and thought having a single protein source might assist with his body coping with the allergies and was crossing fingers that the oatmeal also might be beneficial.

However I am seeing changes in Benson since we saw Dr Stevenson - he has heaps more energy and he said that would happen with the treatment so just a matter of time to see how he does - I am quietly optomistic that this will fix him completely as he was so very confident that this will repair his immune system and that will then allow his body to fix itself.

All the best!! We recently went to a dermatology siminar thing at the uni, and both dermatologists there said they had seen improvements in atopic (seasonal allergies) dogs when they were put on hypoallergenic diets!!

That's why I thought I would put him on it, as it can only help really... *sigh*

[stormie]

For orbit, he has itched on everything so far, though we didn't stay on the FP for as long as we should have and I wasn't totally strict about it cause I really wanted him to have bones etc... But, everything he has eaten so far has had beet pulp in it, in fact it's been the only common ingredient in every food. Every food has given him foul gas so i'm hoping that might be the culprit (my breeder said it can contain corn so to be wary of it?). I wish the EP had flavour that didn't have the beet pulp in it! But that's the reason i'm going with the Artemis I guess.... Fingers crossed for all!!!

[stormie]

Well, been on the Artemis for 4 days straight now, and not sure how long we'll go on with it. Orb often gets gas from his food, which we are ultimately trying to avoid, but the gas produced from the artemis is the worst he's ever had. Stools are also quite soft.

Perhaps we'll try the EP Holistic Giant puppy next...

[Flaves]

Well, been on the Artemis for 4 days straight now, and not sure how long we'll go on with it. Orb often gets gas from his food, which we are ultimately trying to avoid, but the gas produced from the artemis is the worst he's ever had. Stools are also quite soft.

Perhaps we'll try the EP Holistic Giant puppy next...

It has a really high Protein % though

maybe it is him just getting used to it?

[stormie]

Well, been on the Artemis for 4 days straight now, and not sure how long we'll go on with it. Orb often gets gas from his food, which we are ultimately trying to avoid, but the gas produced from the artemis is the worst he's ever had. Stools are also quite soft.

Perhaps we'll try the EP Holistic Giant puppy next...

It has a really high Protein % though

maybe it is him just getting used to it?

it's only 27% protein, which is only 1% more than his previous food.

[Bubbly]

Hi everyone,

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, just skimmed it, but I feel I need to pass on some information about food allergies in dogs. I went to continuing education seminar on food allergies about a year and a half ago given by the top veterinary food allergist in the US. He was the person who came up with the idea of novel protein diets and basically discoved food allergies in dogs (can't for the life of my remember his name at the moment right now though...)

In dogs food allergies are due to a specific gene being turned on. If a dog carries this gene it may never turn on in its life time, or could turn on any time. However, if I remember correctly, it usually becomes active between 2-4 yrs of age. When this gene is turned on the dogs body starts developing allergies to the proteins (both plant and animal), and other things in food that it encounters. The dog will continue to create new allergies for 9-12 months. Then the gene turns off.

This explains a lot of things. No food is hypoallergenic in general. Only food that a particular dog has never encountered while in this 9-12 month phase is hypoallergenic to that particular dog. This is why lamb and rice diets were touted in the states as hypoallergenic, it wasn't that lamb and rice are "better" foods, just that neither lamb nor rice had previously been used in dog foods in the US before. It also explains my a food may seem to alleviate symptoms in the beginning, but then the allergies come back. If you feed a novel food to a dog that still has the gene turned on the dog can become allergic to the new food. It also explains why dogs who have struggled for years with allergies are suddenly new dogs with no allergies when switched to a raw diet. Cooking does change the structure of proteins, so if the dog never saw the proteins in raw meat in that 9-12 month span raw is novel.

Another important point I took from this seminar was that up to 25% of dogs will continue to react to z/d (or the royal cannin equivalent) even though the proteins are digested so small that the dog's body is incapable of recognizing them. That is how z/d works, everything in the food is pre-digested into such a small state the cells and enzymes in a dog's body cannot recognize it as foreign. The 25% of dogs that still react are most likely reacting to something from the process of making the food. And none of the dog food companies will let go of that info, as it is proprietary information. However, there is hope, those dogs that are still reacting to the other stuff from processing can be feed a hypoallergenic diet, it just has to be home made.

So the veterinary allergist's recommendations were that: First and most importantly you must rule out everything else for itchiness. Second as maybe more importantly DO NOT switch foods for 1 year (from the onset of symptoms) with a dog you think is food allergic, you are only giving him MORE allergies. The other point he made with this is that if you do not wait one year then it is impossible to see if season changes bring variation. If season changes do bring variation then you also have to look into environmental allergies. After one year, do a really really thorough diet history of the dog and find one meat and one carb source the dog has never seen. Feed that diet for 90 days, or feed z/d for 90 days. No other food can pas through the dogs system, no treats, no heartgaurd chews, no human food. If after 90 days you see no improvement and you have been strict, with no mistakes, you have to start cooking for your dog with the novel foods to rule out allergies due to processing methods. He actually recommends going right to the home cooking. After that you will find out where you stand. If your dog is better than he can eat the novel protein and carb you have chosen. Some people then try to find other things they can add in, others just stick to what works. He does NOT recommend a raw diet, but did not elaborate on why.

What I think:

I'm going for a prey model raw diet with my pup (who I CANNOT wait for). I know they are better for dogs because they are species appropriate. I've done a lot of research and I am completely convinced. I think that the better nutrition our pets have the less likely it is for nasty immune problems to crop up, like allergy genes turning on.

I think we should limit vaccine on our pets. This is a whole nother topic, but suffice it to say that I think over vaccinating can trigger a lot of things, including immune problems, like allergy genes turning on.

If I were to have a raw fed, vaccine limited dog start acting like they may have food allergies... well I'd probably stick them on either a 2 ingredient kibble for one year and wait it out, or z/d for one year and wait it out, and then go back to raw, avoiding the foods feed in that one year.

Sorry for the long post.... I just felt compelled to share the info....

[stormie]

Thanks Bubbly...

Interestingly, I was at an allergy seminar just a couple of weeks ago and the dermatologists didn't recommend the Hills z/d anymore for the food trials, but prefer the Euk FP instead. Also, the age group for food allergies has changed and they now say that a pruritic dog < 6months old is likely to be food allergies over atopy!

The dermatologist we are dealing with actually told me once I had ruled out parasites etc, to go straight on with a food trial and this was at 16wks old.

[Bubbly]

Thanks Bubbly...

Interestingly, I was at an allergy seminar just a couple of weeks ago and the dermatologists didn't recommend the Hills z/d anymore for the food trials, but prefer the Euk FP instead. Also, the age group for food allergies has changed and they now say that a pruritic dog < 6months old is likely to be food allergies over atopy!

The dermatologist we are dealing with actually told me once I had ruled out parasites etc, to go straight on with a food trial and this was at 16wks old.

Thats very interesting to me. The Vet I saw had no preference for z/d vs. FP (thats is another hydrolosate food, right?). I just kept on typing z/d because it is what we carried in my old clinic, so I remember the name better. The presenter was positive that the gene stays active for 9-12 months. I suppose that going onto any of the hydrolosate foods would not allow the body to form any new allergies.... since everything is so small the body can't even recognize it...

[stormie]

Thanks Bubbly...

Interestingly, I was at an allergy seminar just a couple of weeks ago and the dermatologists didn't recommend the Hills z/d anymore for the food trials, but prefer the Euk FP instead. Also, the age group for food allergies has changed and they now say that a pruritic dog < 6months old is likely to be food allergies over atopy!

The dermatologist we are dealing with actually told me once I had ruled out parasites etc, to go straight on with a food trial and this was at 16wks old.

Thats very interesting to me. The Vet I saw had no preference for z/d vs. FP (thats is another hydrolosate food, right?). I just kept on typing z/d because it is what we carried in my old clinic, so I remember the name better. The presenter was positive that the gene stays active for 9-12 months. I suppose that going onto any of the hydrolosate foods would not allow the body to form any new allergies.... since everything is so small the body can't even recognize it...

Nah the Euk FP is Fish and Potato....

As far as I know and what the dermatologists say, they can develop an allergy to something at any age. They were even telling us they have seen dogs actually develop a sensitivity to particular things used in the intradermal skin tests, which are often done years after the development of allergies, so they can develop at any time and continue throughout the dogs (or cats) life

[Odette]

I ordered a bag of the Fresh Mix small breed puppy formula and adult cat formula.

I ordered it from K9 Katz and Kitchen at about 7pm last night, it was delivered to my work today at lunchtime. With a phone call inteh mornign to check when Id be home.

I have to say, what absolutely wonderful service! Free delivery too!

Im sold! Lets just hope they like it, they were both on EP before this (Holistic chicken and rice for puppy, Adult cat for the cat), and they seem to have gone off it now... Especially the puppy, she barely touches it. Cat wasn't all that into the EP from the start (she LOVED Eukanuba Salmon and Rice though), but eats it.

Hopefully they like this one better (i'll add that they both look very healthy, very soft shiny coats/fur). Will let you know how they do!

[goldielover]

Just rehasing this to see your y our crew are doing on the Artemis Odette? I've started 1 of my goldens on it (slowly mixing in with the EP), and the other 2 will start in the next few weeks as well!

[Odette]

Hi goldielover!

Ok Ive just finished her first bag of it, and i'm really happy with it. Her coat looks amazing, andis very soft, lovely eyes, and she eats it well. Small poos that dont really smell. I have to admit, I prefer it to the EP Holistic, and the puppy definitely likes it.

The cat though, Im still mixing it in with the EP for her (standard EP, not holistic), i had a lot of it left, and her poo seems to be a lot smellier... I don't know if thats because of the mix, i'm starting to phase it out now, but she does look very healthy, and likes the food.. she picks around the Eagle Pack and eats the Artemis! i have more than 3/4 of the bag left, so we'll see how she goes on it....

I have ordered a 7 kg (or thereabouts) bag for the puppy, which will hopefully be delivered tomorrow, to continue her on it. Its a winner for me

[goldielover]

Great that your pup is doing well on the Artemis! I have started one of my girls on it, but i'm still changing over. I still have a full bag of EP as well, so the other 2 girls will be introduced to it soon. I'm hoping they do well on it as i know EP is about to increase their prices.