Info On Ccd

[dogdude]

I'm not so sure about the merits of entering CCD for a number of reasons.

I often hear instructors trying to do the right thing by encouraging people to just enter to "have a go".

Obedience trialling is a sport of precision, and I think instructors need to keep encouraging students to have the patience to refrain from entering until the dog is ready.

They need to explain that their dog will only get one CCD (or other) title........so spend the extra time to make it..... a) worth the money that you spend on a trial weekend..........and b) make it memorable, and at least give your dog every chance of winning your ring or better.

Not everyone wants to win, but at least you won't have to enter scores of trials to get your title.

Unfortunately some instructors do not have the experience (even instructors that trial themselves) to know when a dog is ready. The instructors record in the ring is a good yardstick to go by, and I would advise any newby to trialling to seek a successful one out to get an opinion. They will not always be at your club.

Melbourne does have a place to go to get a qualified opinion (Friends Of Obedience run throughs at KCC Park), but you can always go to a trial and ask the handler of a high scoring dog to take a quick look at your work too. Most people will chuffed that you value their opinion, and will be only too pleased to help.

Once your dog is "ready",.........it won't matter if there is a lead on or not. You will have all of the confidence in the world to enter your first trial, whatever class that you decide to enter!!!

[J...]

Interesting points, to some extent I agree on some points.

However, I don't have the luxury of a half hour trip to find the next club or instructor who may or may not be able to help me out. Nor do I have enough experience out there on "who's who" of the obedience trialling world. Even trials are few and far between, most trials I travel 5 hour round trip with the exception of 3 that are less than 90 mins drive.

I was told my dog was ready to go into Novice 8 months ago by an instructor, I knew she was nowhere near ready and won't be for some time.

[Silvawilow]

Interesting points, to some extent I agree on some points.

However, I don't have the luxury of a half hour trip to find the next club or instructor who may or may not be able to help me out. Nor do I have enough experience out there on "who's who" of the obedience trialling world. Even trials are few and far between, most trials I travel 5 hour round trip with the exception of 3 that are less than 90 mins drive.

I'm in agreeance with you here FP as I live in the country too and it's not as easy as driving to the KCC park (for FOO) or another club (one & half hours away) to get a second opinion.

I do however agree with DD that there are too many dogs in the CCD ring that shouldn't be there because they're not ready. In Narmi's first ever trial (it was pm trial) in the down stays a dog broke as soon as handler turned their back and stood over Narm Narm was passing and bless her soul (and all the proofing we'd done) she ignored this dog (which had bombed every excersise prior to the stays).

When the CCD was the Encouragement class and no titles awarded their was barely any entries now it would have to be one of the bigger classes.

[Erny]

Dogdude - I hear your points too. But to a degree it does allow people the opportunity to 'generalise' their dog's training to the environment of a competition ring. Also, people may well have trained their dog to off-lead stage but their own "early days competition" nerves can affect that. The CCD is an opportunity there too, to accustom (to a degree) the handler.

I've been a big advocate of having a ring for 'training' purposes. Eg. A ring where the handler/dog is judged and they have to go through all the required motions (but where no formal points or passes are gained), but where they are permitted to be in control of their dog so that errors can be trained and proofed against. This would help avoid the "ring-wise" dog. Whilst a "titled" ring isn't what I had in mind, it is part way there, although for the purpose of what I have in mind I think long-lines should be permitted in the stay work.

The CCD "on-lead" component is an opportunity to 'generalise' the dog's training to the competition environment.

[Gayle.]

Obedience trialling is a sport of precision, and I think instructors need to keep encouraging students to have the patience to refrain from entering until the dog is ready.

They need to explain that their dog will only get one CCD (or other) title........so spend the extra time to make it..... a) worth the money that you spend on a trial weekend..........and b) make it memorable, and at least give your dog every chance of winning your ring or better.

This starts to raise it to the level of an elitist sport. Dog trialling should be fun and there should be levels for beginner dogs and handlers. It would be incredibly intimidating as a first time handler to have to enter a ring and compete against people who've had years of experience.

I love Erny's idea of a "training" ring......get the experience of a trial without anything at stake....and also get valuable feedback to allow you to improve.

[Natsu chan]

Dogdude I agree with you for the most part but CCD does have it's good points. I was out of trialling for 16 years, now I'm back with a dog of a different temperament from any I've previously had and she's a challenge, for me at any rate. I also now have health issues I never had as a junior, and those too make trailing hard for me. For us for my dog and I as a team CCD is a great help. FOO isn't an option for me as I don't drive, that makes going to a club difficult too. Though with this girl I think doing an extended time of heeling would not be a good thing. Most of our NQs are because of me, because I wobble in the heeling due to hip pain and because my balance isn't the best now. There's also the issue of having a dog who's soft and relatively low drive as opposed to the strong, onward bound, confident, high drive dogs I've had previously.

I do see people pushing and trailing too soon but I also see that for many people CCD is a valuable stepping stone. CCD is about encouragement and so it should be, remember that the CCD ring is just the old encouragement classes given a place in competition. A dog who can do CCD should be able to do novice but the handler and dog combined may find novice a bit daunting. Humans as we know can be greatly affected by nerves, especially this human.

[dogdude]

Well.......I certainly don't think obedience is an elitist sport by any means. Anyone with any dog can enter, but like any sport.....you need to train to a certain level to be competitive or to acheive a goal.

If I get a bunch of mates together to play the Australian cricket side with next to no training then I would expect to be crucified by the competition. It would be demoralising to fail so miserably if I truly beleived that I was good enough to win because someone told me that I was.

Every dog club that I have ever been to has a ring to do run throughs with. You should get all of the practice that you need in there rather than at a trial. If your dog can really heel.....then the off lead part is irelevant.

Of course I think that CCD class is fanatastic..........but only if the dog is ready (for newby handlers anyway).

Really....a trial is not much different to a normal Sunday training day doing run throughs in class 4 or 5. Yes there will be strange dogs and new smells, but if you always vary your training grounds during home training when at the higher levels, and you dog has been socialised.........then it won't be that bigger deal for the dog and they will adapt quickly.

I know all about your problems in the country, and I lived very close to where you do FP, and entered the same trials. Maybe a weekend trip to the city may be the go once "you" think your dog is ready.

[gsdog2]

Dogdude - I hear your points too. But to a degree it does allow people the opportunity to 'generalise' their dog's training to the environment of a competition ring. Also, people may well have trained their dog to off-lead stage but their own "early days competition" nerves can affect that. The CCD is an opportunity there too, to accustom (to a degree) the handler.

I've been a big advocate of having a ring for 'training' purposes. Eg. A ring where the handler/dog is judged and they have to go through all the required motions (but where no formal points or passes are gained), but where they are permitted to be in control of their dog so that errors can be trained and proofed against. This would help avoid the "ring-wise" dog. Whilst a "titled" ring isn't what I had in mind, it is part way there, although for the purpose of what I have in mind I think long-lines should be permitted in the stay work.

The CCD "on-lead" component is an opportunity to 'generalise' the dog's training to the competition environment.

Wouldn't sweepstakes come under this category. In sweepstakes you follow the same procedures as you would in a trial, although points don't go towards a title. In Qld anyway, you have to qualify in sweepstakes before you can enter Novice. However this isn't the case for CCD (and maybe it should be the same for CCD i.e. qualifying score).

[dogdude]

I think that idea may have some merit gsdog2.

Erny: I think that volunteering to be a ring Steward before you trial is a great way to expose yourself to what goes on in a trial ring. The worst part of your first trial is not knowing how the judges behave etc, and you can get a good relaxed grip on what happens inside the ring. I was actually suprised at just how informal my first judge was. They really want you to succeed at the end of the day.

[Erny]

I think that idea may have some merit gsdog2.

Erny: I think that volunteering to be a ring Steward before you trial is a great way to expose yourself to what goes on in a trial ring.

I think that's a great idea DD.

With the "run through" ring - is that just a practice ring?

This is different to when people are actually being "judged" (whether points apply or not). I know this from horse event comp days. Can be as calm as all get-out in the practice ring ..... but enter under the watchful eye of a judge and it can be a completely different kettle of fish. And of course our nerves often do affect our dogs' performances.

[Erny]

Wouldn't sweepstakes come under this category. In sweepstakes you follow the same procedures as you would in a trial, although points don't go towards a title.

If it is as it sounds then yes, this could very well be something that's already in place and could be used for the purposes I've mentioned.

Do most clubs run a "sweepstakes" class at most events?

[Rom]

I'd like to see inter club 'match' competitions with slight changes of rules and run on a more social basis...like adapting some of the rules from rally obedience, but applying them to a normal obedience ring run out....eg...you are allowed to verbally encourage your dog.

No group stays....but the 'honour' stay that is done in rally obedience where the dog who has just finished a ring run out holds a stay while the next dog is in the ring. That way if a dog breaks his stay, he is less likely to affect other dogs....and infact, this stay could be done on a long line to help proof the stay in that environment if necessary.

I think that this serves two aims....not only is the dog exposed to the trial environment, but some of the pressure is taken off so that both handler and dog are introduced to competition in a more relaxed environment.

The club that gains the most points wins on the day....to make sure there is some equity where entry levels are uneven from each of the 2 or 3 clubs that take part the final total score of each club can be divided by the total number of members that entered from that club.

There could be a 'challenge cup' to award to the winning club at the end of the season.

Each individual club could devise an 'unofficial' club encouragement award for their own members that performed well on the day....an engraved medallion only costs about $3 but means a lot to some people.

It may not attract die hard triallers....maybe more just the pet owners who are looking for fun social activities to engage in with their dog...but in my experience, its the pet owners that make up the majority of numbers at a club anyway.

Costs could be kept down because there is no need for official judges.

These matches could be held as fundraisers for clubs.

Generally here in Qld, each club only has to hold one sweepstakes a year.

[BC]

The club I'm with has 4 rings set up every Saturday for those trialling, and we only do ring practise. You can only use them solely though once you have your CCD title as the last group class is CCD training. (there is normally time for members of the CCD group class though to have a run through once class and everyone else is finished in the ring so the class still has the opportunity to use them if they like)

Depending on the class, you get an allocated time in the ring, so you turn up, and write your name down in the next time slot and it is yours. Each ring will also run stays relevant to the class in the ring. There are volunteer judges and stewards in each ring and yes it is like a trial without the stresses, and gives you the opportunity to resolve handling/dog errors etc. I do find though, that your dogs get accustomed to the same people, dogs and grounds every week, compared to a trial where everything is new.

My main reason for doing CCD was for myself to become more relaxed as Cooper is the first dog I have ever trailled, and even though Cooper has done private ring training and at our club, I was still not sure if he would be 100% proofed when it came time for a real trial. The lead gives the handler more confidence I think, than the dog as I agree the dog should already be trained to CD standard prior to entering CCD. It was more a learning curve for me than anything else.

On the private ring training days I also steward most of the day too from CD to UD class so that was a great help in knowing what order exersises are asked and where stewards judges will stand and ask etc.

By the way, we were titled in 3 trials and won CCD class at the Royal

Edited to add more info:

Also, our club runs a fun day/challenge once a year with another club in agility and obedience and points are tallied at the end of the day for each club with most wins etc then cups sashes etc are awarded. I find these are a great way for newbies especially to get accustomed to an actual trial environment.

In regards to sweepstakes, I have only ever been to a trial here in VIC once with sweepstakes, and that was a veterans class.

Edited February 11, 2008 by BC

[whatevah]

http://www.dogtrick.741.com/mosesobedience.htm the site is back up, has all the rules, and videos.

[J...]

We have done ring run throughs at training, its pretty much up to the handler how far they wish to go with it i.e food or no food, off-lead or on, extra cues or none etc. To me they aren't a lot different to normal class, even if you chose to complete a ring to trial requirements.

Where I struggle is a "stranger" or relatively unknown person coming in and calling a test! That kind of ring practise is invaluable but not always available, which is why I found CCD handy.

Edited February 11, 2008 by feralpup