Puppy Acting Differently - Should I Be Worried?

[Odette]

My partner and i went away for 6 days last week, to the Whitsundays for a well deserved break.. We had booked the holiday months ago, before i had even bought the puppy.

I left my puppy (5 months old) and cat with my mum, who has a big house and big yard. While we normally food train our puppy (she works for every meal pretty much hahaha), mum, who was wokring and didnt have much time, would feed her twice a day in a bowl. Apparently the puppy had a ball at mum's place, tearing it up, playing with the kids.

Anyway, we got back and the puppy ran out of the house, and for the first time EVER, would not come back when called. Even the clicker didnt work. We had to chase her and corner her.

Over the past couple of days, we have been food training her again, and she is responding, we are particularly focusing on her recall (which was PERFECT before).

I have notice that she doesnt hungrily take the food out of our hands anymore, which she always used to do (she is a pug X cavalier). She sits, stays, all the usual, but will only gently take the food now... She also seems a bit more quiet than before....

Is this normal after being seperated for a week? Am i just being an overanxious mum?

She is goign to the vet tongiht to get microchipped anyway, so i can ask then... But she is definately more aloof than before......

One thing that HAS improved is her toilet training.. Apparently, atr mums she had no cocnept of toilet training, and mum was constantly cleaning up after her.. She hasn't gone to the toilet in our house not even once since she has been back!

[becks]

She could just be getting to the teenage 'why should I' stage and having had a week of living with different rules, it has shown her that she doesn't have to behave in the way you want or expect. Most dogs go through a phase when they start to test you as they grow up.

and for the first time EVER, would not come back when called. Even the clicker didnt work. We had to chase her and corner her.

Why would you even have used a clicker if she was NOT doing what you wanted? The clicker marks the point at which the dog is doing what you want.

[Odette]

She associates the clicker with a reward. We say sit, she sits, "CLICK", reward.

We found that if she DOES run off, the clicker always gets her to come back. It was our security measure if she DID run off from mum while we were gone, the clicker would always get her back, and we tested it, and it worked (mum has a pretty thick accent, and the puppy really plays up around her. The clicker sounds the same no matter who uses it).

[BrunoBella]

My dogs used to misbehave after they'd been away, not because they've misssed me but because they were allowed to while away. Takes about a week to get them back to normal.

becks is right, they hit the testing phase around now. Make sure you are super-consistent with the rules and you will come out of this fine.

I don't use a clicker but someone else can never time the click the same way as you would. Now you will probably have to retrain again. The joys of dog ownership ;)

IMO you can't expect your dogs training to progress while you're away as no one else knows your dogs like you do. You can only hope it doesn't go too far backwards.

Don't worry.

[Dogsfevr]

Why would you even have used a clicker if she was NOT doing what you wanted? The clicker marks the point at which the dog is doing what you want.

I think what Becks is saying the dog didnt respond to the clicker at that time so it shouldnt have been used presuming you used it a couple of times.

I think what you need to remember is 5 months & perfect CANNOT be used together..

As already said be grateful your mum looked after them .im sure having a pupy wasnt easy for them either & they would have done what was convient for them .

Although are you saying your pup never gets feed from a bowl & clicker is the only way you feed it??

I have friends high up in obedience & very much clicker uses but there dogs get feed there meals from there bowl & there clicker treats are solely for that purpose.

[Poodle wrangler]

She just needs some "refresher" training after you've been away .

eta: Is it possible that she was called then "punished" while you were away?

"Punished" = being called then told off or put outside, or called followed by anything not nice for her?

If so, just do some more training on a long lead (NOT coming isn't an option) and make sure not to call and punish in the future. Is useless anyway- dog only associates coming- not the bad deed- with the punishment.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Poodle wrangler

[Odette]

Why would you even have used a clicker if she was NOT doing what you wanted? The clicker marks the point at which the dog is doing what you want.

I think what Becks is saying the dog didnt respond to the clicker at that time so it shouldnt have been used presuming you used it a couple of times.

I think what you need to remember is 5 months & perfect CANNOT be used together..

As already said be grateful your mum looked after them .im sure having a pupy wasnt easy for them either & they would have done what was convient for them .

Although are you saying your pup never gets feed from a bowl & clicker is the only way you feed it??

I have friends high up in obedience & very much clicker uses but there dogs get feed there meals from there bowl & there clicker treats are solely for that purpose.

No, no, you understood me wrong.

Im sure your "high-up obedience training friends" have their methods that work, so far, this HAS worked in our puppy. We don't feed the dog twice a day in a bowl, we train her as we feed her. The clicker only gets used when she does what we want.

eg. "sit". Dog sits. "CLICK" Reward. So, after a few months, if someone HAPPENS to click the clicker, she will run to us because she associates the "click" noise with food. That's just a byproduct of clicker training in our puppy!

I have absolutely no isues with mum taking care of the dog, and not training her while feeding her. Im extremely grateful, i don't really see how you surmised that i wasn't grateful, because im concerned that the dog is more quiet than usual? Or that she only gently takes food, not hungrily? Im worried that she's off her food! Or depressed, or anxious or something, has nothing to do with mum's ability to care for her or the way we use the clicker.

Anyway.

The clicker was given to mum IN CASE the puppy ran from her and her calling the pup didnt work, because, from a few tests, we knew that the click sound alone is enough to get her to run back.

I'll also make the note: We took the puppy to preschool, and to basic obedience classes - that's where we were taught to use the clicker. We didn't just make it up ourselves.

We have beyond basics training beginning next week, and she has responded again to us "retraining" her, and practising her recall.

[Odette]

Oh, and we don't just use the clicker. We also use "yes", and are just starting to use praise and wean her off the food training.

We aren't experts though, I'm going to talk to the trainer again next week and find out where to go from here. "Beyond basics".

[Guest Tess32]

I'd really advise against ever using the clicker as an emergency recall again You're changing the meaning of the click and weakening it by using it as a 'sound'. Talk to a trainer training an emergency recall.

The clicker is a conditioned reinforcer so yes, she's going to come back if she gets clicked sometimes because she expects a reinforcer, BUT, whatever you click you're saying "YES, THAT'S CORRECT" so if you click when she's NOT recalling, you've just increased the probability of her not coming back the next time.

If your pup responds well to a noise for recall, try training her with a whistle.

[Odette]

Hmmm, that's a good idea. I'll look into that, i need something that will work for mum if she needs to take care of her....

We're working on her name recall right now, which has always been really good.. Basically, we get her to sit and stay, then walk into another room. Then call out her name, and when she comes, we reward her.

She's pretty good, we'll call out a number of different names, and she'll only come when we call out "Odette", we were pretty impressed by that (although we might have to work on that again!!)

[Dogsfevr]

m sure your "high-up obedience training friends" have their methods that work, so far, this HAS worked in our puppy. We don't feed the dog twice a day in a bowl, we train her as we feed her. The clicker only gets used when she does what we want.

It not a case of methods that work its a case of meals being meals & training be training.

All im getting at is the pup isnt getting her meals in a bowl but from clicker only she is most likely working more for hunger than the click.

All the people i now who do clicker do not feed /work it this way.There meals are exactly that & there working treats are different.

I would be very concerned by not feeding from a bowl or defining meals that you are teaching her to eat from the hand & on click only??Which could be an issue down the track.

"I have notice that she doesnt hungrily take the food out of our hands anymore " I would consider this to be because she was getting feed from a bowl & 2 meals for a growing puppy not getting a feed when training happens .

A hungry dog doesnt work better for a clicker

[laffi]

I'd really advise against ever using the clicker as an emergency recall again You're changing the meaning of the click and weakening it by using it as a 'sound'. Talk to a trainer training an emergency recall.

The clicker is a conditioned reinforcer so yes, she's going to come back if she gets clicked sometimes because she expects a reinforcer, BUT, whatever you click you're saying "YES, THAT'S CORRECT" so if you click when she's NOT recalling, you've just increased the probability of her not coming back the next time.

If your pup responds well to a noise for recall, try training her with a whistle.

I totally agree.

Clicker is just a marker and not a primary reinforcer. Primary reinforcers are food, play, pat. For all dogs food is a reinforcer, for some play and others pat. Clicker is a marker and should always be followed by a reinforcer. Do not fade the food into patting if patting is not reinforcing for your dog. My dogs love cuddles but I wouldn't use them in training.

Do not mark the incorrect behavior (like not coming when you call) just for her to come to get food. Because you are marking the wrong behavior and if she is clicker trained correctly she will learn not to come. She will only come if she decides that what you have in return is good enough (not something you want to teach her).

I see nothing wrong with training her using her dinners. As a matter of fact I, and many other people, do it very often.

You say she doesn't gobble her food as much as she used to... well there are few possibilities. First of all she expects it now to be free as it was at your mums, so she is not thrilled to work for it again. Second possibility is that your mum introduced some other foods that she liked more and she is not impressed with her dining options. Third: she is not hungry. Forth: she is sick. (but she doesn't seem to act sick, just cheeky ).

Please do not use a clicker as a reward. Whistle training for her recalls is a great idea. You can still use a clicker when she comes when called (or whistled ).

[Gayle.]

We use a small squeaky toy to lure our boy back, I don't have a very loud voice and when I shout it doesn't carry far so if he's a long way away from me, he hears the squeaky toy better than he hears me. Once he's on his way back, I reinforce it by calling his name excitedly and waving my arms and telling him to "come to me". Once he arrives in front of me he gets praised and treats and a sniff of the toy.

[Dogsfevr]

I see nothing wrong with training her using her dinners. As a matter of fact I, and many other people, do it very often.

May i ask does your dog get feed from a bowl or do you solely use the training sessions to feed an entire meal??

With show training we use treats BUT there meal is there meal where they get there goodies etc etc.

I guess what im looking at is could not feed a ideal meal to my setters via training only.

When i train for the ring treats arent the sole reward as im not training them to perform for food ,im training them to perform for the pleasure & what ever the treat maybe .(toy,squeaky,voice,perform a trick ).

I dont want the dogs to feel that food is what there performing for & then be faced with a scenario of not having that trained reward there for the dogs expectations & that they will only do what i want in exchange.

[charli73]

Odette,

I went away for a week for work and left my 7 month old GSD puppy with hubby for a week and when I got home she wouldnt listent to ANYTHING I said when I returned. Her recalls, sits, drops and stands were great before that but I think It was unishment for me leaving.... I was the alpha before then but It swapped when I got home I had to re-establish my position in the heirachy and let her know I meant business.

I was a tough bugger but shes back to her normal self and Im boss again...

Keep persisting, you'll get there....