lilyandjazz Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hi, I have a 5 yr old kelpie who from the time i got her at 12 weeks, has been a jumper. She also has an extremely short attention span. When she is in full excitement mode ie. off lead park or going in the car it looks like she in a pogo stick. She has done years of obedience and never tries to jump whilst she is on lead. I have tried turning my back to her whenever she jumps, she just jumps up at my back, I have tried ignoring her and other different obedience work. If i speak to her she sits straight away. But after 5 yrs and for the 10 billionth time saying "Ebby sit" i am at a loss as to how to stop this behaviour. It was suggested by another lady i show with that kelpies jump and basically there is nothing you can do about it. Hopefully someone will have some helpful tips for me. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 It was suggested by another lady i show with that kelpies jump and basically there is nothing you can do about it. That's what I was told about my GSPs too . Not very encouraging. Bruno jumped on my back as well . If getting her to sit doesn't help I would try a few corrections. Things I have used successfully are water squirters, saying "no" or "ah ah" in a low voice. Blocking with my knee. Withholding attention. Also, grabbing the dog by the collar and holding them still while growling loudly helps. Have you tried any of these? BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyandjazz Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 It was suggested by another lady i show with that kelpies jump and basically there is nothing you can do about it. That's what I was told about my GSPs too . Not very encouraging. Bruno jumped on my back as well . If getting her to sit doesn't help I would try a few corrections. Things I have used successfully are water squirters, saying "no" or "ah ah" in a low voice. Blocking with my knee. Withholding attention. Also, grabbing the dog by the collar and holding them still while growling loudly helps. Have you tried any of these? BP I have tried blocking with my knees, very low voice, holding her attention and growling at her. As soon as i try all these things she stops and is fine. The waterspray seems like a good idea, will try that. It is basically like you need to re-enforce her every 1 minute or so, because she forgots what she has learnt, so it can become very frustrating as i feel like i have been re-enforcing her for the last 5 yrs, to no effect. At the moment, i feel all enforced out with her. That is why i thought i would get some new suggestions. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 It is very frustrating, I agree. I now use an ecollar on my dogs to improve their recall. You can use this to correct bad behaviour as well. Ask K9 Force if you want to know if this would help with your kelpie. He sold me the ecollar and the training manual. I used it today to get bella to stop hunting flies in my kitchen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyandjazz Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 Thanks. Will give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms James Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I feel your pain, I've tried over the last 18 months to get Bella to stop jumping, all to no avail I also get the jumping up on my back, & no matter how much I correct her & put her in a sit before I give her any attention, the next time I just have to do it all over again. It does get old after 18 months, that's for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiechick Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Ahh- the joys of kelpie ownership. I own a just turned 5 and a 20 months - and grew up with kelpies as a child. I realise all dogs are different and don't know anything about yours but in general kelpies do NOT respond well to any form of harsh treatment and there is no way I would use anything suggested to you so far on mine. (except the water squirting cos mine would see that as a game rather than a punishment! ) As a breed they appear confident, sometimes pushy and can jump around like clowns, but I believe they are also very soft dogs and I have seen many ruined by training with aversives. Kelpies tend to be a one person dog (sometimes 2) and for me, our relationship is everything. I want a dog that truly wants to offer me the desired behaviour, rather than offering it because of the consequences. However, every now and again you also seem to get one who is a 'hard nosed bugar'- the exception rather than the rule. In this case the suggestions outlined so far may work. Luckily I have never owned a kelpie like this - although I have seen them- and have been able to achieve results with positive training. But as I said, that would depend on your dog. I also don't believe that it is impossible to do anything about the jumping. When is this occurring? When you arrive home? Every time you go into the yard? In the house? You first need to define if there is a pattern to this behaviour occurring. You might need to brush up on your leadership training - does your kelpie truly see you as the pack leader? They are sneaky in this respect as they tend not to be 'overtly dominant' - the information pack from my kelpie's breeder came with the warning - 'Kelpies are masters of psychology' - Very true. They also need to learn that they have an 'on/off'switch ) You mentioned that you don't have problems on lead so I would start there. Choose a default behaviour (sit, drop, going to a mat, etc.) and give extremely high value rewards for this behaviour in an environment where there are minimal distractions. Gradually drop the lead, building up to removing it, and add distractions - eg: situations where jumping will occur. (An excellent reference for this is 'Control Unleashed' by Leslie McDevitt) Also think about the position where you are rewarding - to stop jumping I would make sure that I continually delivered rewards low- no hands in the air. My young kelpie is a 'jumper' and I put the behaviour on cue - firstly rewarded him, then put a verbal cue to the behaviour, then asked him to jump and rewarded him. Now he only jumps on me if I ask him to. (which I still do every now and then) He also has agility training as an outlet - giving your kelpie a 'job' can help a lot. Is your kelpie from a breeder ? If so, I would suggest also contacting them and asking how they would deal with the issue. Also, none of these ideas are a 'quick fix' - they will require a lot of training and consistency, but worth it in the end. Hope some of this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 When my silly young Kelpie jumps up, I simply hold onto her feet. No emotion, no words, I just hold onto her feet. After a while she starts to feel uncomfortable. This doesnt hurt her at all but teaches her that it is uncomfortable to jump up. She gets lots off praise and attention when her feet stay on the ground. She hasnt jumped up for a long time now. I would also suggest checking on your leadership status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Kaos can jump up and give kisses when you are standing up! He no longer often jumps up on me, but does sometimes on guests/strangers when he gets excited, and does tend to think people sitting down are fair game I generally get him to sit or drop if he is being a silly bugger. I agree with Kelpiechick about them being fairly soft while being pushy at the same time, can make things tricky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiesrule Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 They joys of owning kelpies ;) they love life (and you) so much they just find it hard to contain it sometimes. Some of mine jump, some dont, mostly mine want to just stand on their back legs with their front legs rand head esting on you. With mine, holding their feet is a treat but it would work with yours if you hold them when she is trying to get away. With her it will reinforce it is uncomfortable to be in that position. I believe you can fix your kelpie jumping but I think reverse phsycology works best with them, otherwise they think you are playing a game with them... Personally, I dont mind my dogs jumping on me (I do have a signal to stop it if im all clean and dressed up ) I think after all these years I got used to it, but I dont think everyone else my kids meet feel the same way I hope you fix your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyandjazz Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hi, I agree with kelpies not liking to be dealt with in a harsh matter, she is very sensitive to that kind of behaviour. Yes, ebby is show bred out of 2 australian champions. My brother has the pick of the litter and she is brillant, which is even more frustrating to me as ella is always beautifully behaved and has never jumped even as a pup. I have spoken to the breeder at a couple of shows and she said she is the spitting image of her mothers behaviour and unfortunately that her jumping is a constant battle. She has been doing agility for a number of years and really enjoys it, she does not jump at me when we are at agility. The times when she jumps is when she is really excited ie. going in the car or playing with the ball. I request her to sit or drop at all these times. Which works until you take to move forward with her. She has brief moments of brillance, which keep you going with her and you see the dog she can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShellyBeggs Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Ok I guess I got the only dominant arrogant pig headed kelpie out there.... Mine was a jumper......and all brought about by excitement.... "oh your home Yipppppeeee" usually. It was hard and really a waiting game but I fixed it within a week. I wouldn't let him out of his run and inside with me until he was calm and preferably sitting calmly but that came later. Not one little shiver of excitement because rewarding the excited state would reinforce that excitement as a 'wanted' behaviour. It began with waiting until he stopped the excitement, got bored and usually went off to sniff something and I would open the gate.......if he raced back towards the gate excitedly then the gate was closed and the waiting started all over again. He very quickly worked out that nothing would happen until he was calm. Then I added in the sit calmly because once he was calm, he could listen. The key is to be able to see any hidden excitement.......that little shiver, a really low whine because that is still excitement and not to be rewarded. I worked on the same theory putting on the leash, going out the door, getting in the car, being fed etc...... anything he got over excited about. The leash got put away at the first sign of excitement and it didn't go on until he was calm.....he didn't go out the door until he was calm, he didn't get in the car until he was calm and he wasn't released to eat until he stopped sooking and shaking and being excited and gave me focus. Its frustrating at first coz it seems to take FOREVER for calm.....but it gets quicker each time. Some of our training sessions at home was just 30 min of trying to get out the door calmly. But patience is the key and they do get it eventually........ But all 5 dogs at my place at the moment, incl 2 x 12 wo pups, can line up to come inside all very calm, we can get leads on and out the door and into the car in an orderly fashion! My family think its very impressive as their two little dogs run around in circles, tangle leads and almost pull them out the door. Calm = reward Excited = no reward P.S If the excitement is intense, it can help to be near the dog so they can see you but ignore them, no eye contact, no sound and no touch for a period of time when the excitement usually begins and for a period of time when you first come in contact with the dog (first up in the morning, just home etc....). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Fantastic work shelleybeggs I use a similar technique on my gsps but they're nowhere near as excitable as kelpies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Ok I guess I got the only dominant arrogant pig headed kelpie out there.... I got one too, you're not alone My boy IS dominant, arrogant, you name it. Aversives didn't work to stop his jumping as he was more likely to respond with back chat - sort of "come on, make me stop jumping!". Checking the leadership did the trick with him - no greeting him until he was calm, I initiate all contact and ignore him if he's being a pest. Initially if the jumping persisted, I walked away, no eye contact, no reaction at all, he lost his chance to interact for a few minutes (my dogs live outside so this is easy for me, I just go inside). I would then try again, call him over once calm and ask for a sit/drop/whatever. He now throws sits at me for attention (smart dog still knows how to manipulate me ) and only jumps (on me, that is) when invited. He will still jump on anyone that shows him the slightest encouragement, even if that is only eye contact. When we greet someone, I ask them to please completely ignore him if they dont want him to jump on them. Then when he is calm and offering sits, they can greet him. My elderly aunt (who is not dog savvy at all and is actually a little afraid of them) is able to spend time outside with the dogs without getting knocked over using the method I did. Mind you, all you really need to do is carry a tape measure with you and the kelpie runs a mile! Scary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyandjazz Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 Thanks everyone, for your informative tips. Will put these into practice and hopefully have some good results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShellyBeggs Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 (edited) Fantastic work shelleybeggs I use a similar technique on my gsps but they're nowhere near as excitable as kelpies Its nerve grating.......but the key is nerves as steel and patience! Ok I guess I got the only dominant arrogant pig headed kelpie out there.... I got one too, you're not alone My boy IS dominant, arrogant, you name it. Aversives didn't work to stop his jumping as he was more likely to respond with back chat - sort of "come on, make me stop jumping!". Checking the leadership did the trick with him - no greeting him until he was calm, I initiate all contact and ignore him if he's being a pest. Initially if the jumping persisted, I walked away, no eye contact, no reaction at all, he lost his chance to interact for a few minutes (my dogs live outside so this is easy for me, I just go inside). I would then try again, call him over once calm and ask for a sit/drop/whatever. He now throws sits at me for attention (smart dog still knows how to manipulate me :rolleyes: ) and only jumps (on me, that is) when invited. He will still jump on anyone that shows him the slightest encouragement, even if that is only eye contact. When we greet someone, I ask them to please completely ignore him if they dont want him to jump on them. Then when he is calm and offering sits, they can greet him. My elderly aunt (who is not dog savvy at all and is actually a little afraid of them) is able to spend time outside with the dogs without getting knocked over using the method I did. Mind you, all you really need to do is carry a tape measure with you and the kelpie runs a mile! Scary Oh you have a backchatting kelpie too.......mine does snappy turtle at me if I try and make him do anything he disagrees with or from forcing him to stop something he is enjoying. and with my kelpie its the zoom on the camera - freaky stuff! But the ignoring them until they give you the behaviour you want really works coz they HATE being ignored and they have to use their brain.........and you are not forcing them to do anything and not necessarily giving them direct orders.....but they have to think, to analyse what worked the previous time but they still have that freedom of choice. Edited to add.....since he loves it, he is invited to jump up and get a rough scruff when he has done something really really well at training........ Edited February 8, 2008 by ShellyBeggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 This has been great reading this for me! I have a kelpie that jumps...and jumps....and jumps....and jumps too! After the initial jump jump jump every time I go outside, he settles down, but OMG he is terrible with visitors! Its great to hear I am not the only Kelpie owner with this same "problem"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms James Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Shelly, you've got some great tips there! Can I threadjack for just a little second here, pretty please? What can you do if you've got 2 dogs waiting to come inside & one is the excitable kelpie jumping up against the glass, whining and carrying on, & the other is sitting nice & calmly? Should I wait until they're both calm or bodyblock the excitable dog to let the calm one through? Ta! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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