Unwell Rotties

[grumpette]

I have a question for BP and cavNrott.

Of course you do not have to answer or you can answer privately.

My first Rotty Sam was PTS due to the pain and immobility caused by a tumour on his spine, between his hips. He had 2 other soft tissue tumours and a lipoma as well.

So this question is for future reference should it happen again.

Have you considered radiation treatment for the pain associated with the osteosarcoma?

I have been reading that radiation can improve pain management for 4 to 5 months at a time.

I am sure that you have considered it and was wondering if it was an option for you both.

Also, is the chemotherapy for pain management as well as control of metastases?

I hope that you are all in a happy place today, and enjoying your time together.

Edited January 31, 2008 by grumpette

[kiahzen]

I have no issues in answering that question Grumpette.....

In our case the Tumor is extremely agressive and doing anything that is going to prolong Kiesha's life is basically not fair on her....

It won't stop the growth of the cancer and it will not do much for her pain...

If only i had the X-Rays to post here so you could all see what I am talking about.....

We have spoken with an Oncology specialist in QLD and have spoken with a specialist here and they all agreed to treat pain and then when the time comes that it really isn't quality then we will need to make the decission to have her PTS

Believe me if i could spend a million dollars on her to make her better i would but i just don't feel that it's fair to prolong the inevitable, this is in her case only as Sophie has something that is totally different to Kiesha...

The Osteosarcoma is very agressive and in a location where it will be affecting her whole body eventually...

I hope that this makes sense...

Medication change seems to have gone well and she seems to be back to her normal self.. Fingers crossed that she remains that way for a couple more weeks before we need to change it again..

[oonga]

.Medication change seems to have gone well and she seems to be back to her normal self.. Fingers crossed that she remains that way for a couple more weeks before we need to change it again..

i am crossing my fingers for a couple more months before you need to change it

Good to hear she is happy again

how are Sophie and CavNrott going??

hopefully well!!! to you all too!

ZednQ

hope Zed is happy too, give him a big

[grumpette]

Bluepoppy

Thank you very much for your reply.

I was hoping that it might be an option so that you both could enjoy some more quality time with your girls.

I think it is fantastic that the change of meds as brought back Kiesha's zest for life.

It must make it all worthwhile when you see her smile and romp around.

Here's hoping that you have another excellent day tomorrow.

[cavNrott]

grumpette: In Sophie's case radiation therapy isn't an option. It's a localised therapy. Radiation kills normal cells as well as rogue cells and as Sophie's primary tumour is on her gum line it would be too dangerous. It could affect her optic nerve as well as the salivary glands. That plus the fact that radiation usually has to be done for several weeks to be effective. We don't think Sophie has several weeks.

She is not on chemo but has one chemo drug along with all the non chemo drugs included in the metronomics regime. This regime is not making her feel sick and it may slow down the progression of the disease..in fact I would say it is doing its job because it wasn't expected that she would still be here with me.

With osteosarcoma, by the time it's diagnosed it has usually metastasised to the lungs but doesn't show on xray at the early stages. I believe there has to be a billion? cells before the lungs mets is visible on xray. Sophie doesn't cough and when I listen to her chest with a stethoscope her lungs are clear.

Sophie's primary tumour was in her gum and has invaded her jaw bone causing osteosarcoma. Neither chemo or radiation is very successful with osteo. I wouldn't put Sophie through the trauma of either treatment for the sake of maybe, an extra month or two of life. Whatever time she has left I want to be as stress and pain free as possible for her. Quality before quantity is the way for us to go.

Both BP and I have dogs with osteosarcoma in the head. Sophie's has already travelled from the primary location along the jaw bone right to the back. Her eye on that side has changed slightly in shape though it wouldn't be noticeable to anyone who didn't know her. It no longer looks identical to the other eye, it's slightly more round in shape. That tells me that the cancer cells have spread further along and upwards.

I'm speaking for BP and myself here, we know to watch our dogs very carefully for any slight temperament changes because this will indicate to us that the cancer is invading the brain. Osteo is usually found in the limbs and it's not often found in the head. Both of our dogs drew the short straw.

We are seeing the oncologist again tomorrow and Sophie will have more blood and urine taken. Her pain medication which is Feldene in the morning and Tradamol at night is working well for her. She sleeps more than usual but when she's awake she is happy just as she always has been. I daresay the drug regime will be changed tomorrow, it's usually either added to or one drug is taken away when we see the oncologist. They do a full FBE so they can keep track of what's happening with Sophie. I guess that's why they keep changing some of the drugs.

Thanks to all for the good wishes and the lovely pm's. As always, it gives me strength.

[laneka]

Thanks for that CavNrott, I have learnt so much. I have had dogs in the past with osteoscarcoma and there was not much that could be done back then.

Rottweilers have suffered this horrible disease for as long as I have had them. The first dog that I had that developed it was born in 1973. It is not new but the treatments are so much better, re the pain relief. There were not oncologists back then so it was a case of when the pain got too bad it was decision time. Very sad.

Please keep posting about Sophie. I want to know how she is coping day to day.

Thinking of you all and praying hard.

[reddog21]

Thanks for posting in this thread. I am learning so much although I seem to have a lot of grit in my eye when Im here.

You are all in our thoughts.

Bill & Bev

[Staffyluv]

Firstly, I just wanted to say that my heart just breaks for what these majestic dogs and their owners are going through.

I have a question for BP and cavNrott.

Of course you do not have to answer or you can answer privately.

My first Rotty Sam was PTS due to the pain and immobility caused by a tumour on his spine, between his hips. He had 2 other soft tissue tumours and a lipoma as well.

So this question is for future reference should it happen again.

Have you considered radiation treatment for the pain associated with the osteosarcoma?

I have been reading that radiation can improve pain management for 4 to 5 months at a time.

I am sure that you have considered it and was wondering if it was an option for you both.

Also, is the chemotherapy for pain management as well as control of metastases?

I hope that you are all in a happy place today, and enjoying your time together.

Grumpette, I know you did not ask this of me but decided to add my thoughts anyway (hope you don't mind).

Radiation is a localised treatment, that can and often does shrink the tumour being treated - although there are reasons why it is often not used around the head. Often because of the other problems it creates, such as what CnR said with Sophie. It can be used to manage the pain because it shrinks the tumour, less pain from a smaller tumour.

Chemo is not a localised treatment and bombards the whole system. It cannot be given to animals in the same doses it is given to humans because we do not have the luxury of giving our pets a bone marrow transplant when the chemo kills off all the good cells. Chemo kills off fast dividing cells through the whole system - both good and bad, unfortunately. Therefore it is rare that enough chemo can be given to dogs to make them sick, like it does with humans - that is the reason that most dogs handle chemo relatively well... Chemo is not, from my knowledge, a pain management tool. It is used when the cancer has already become systemic because it treats the whole body, unlike radiation that treats a specific site.

Ollie had chemo because his cancer was systemic, therefore radiation would have been useless in his case.

Hope that helps you to understand a bit more about the treatments.

In saying all of that, there are many holistic treatments available to our animals now that have an amazing result - I believe that Ollie is still here because of the combination of both traditional and holistic treatment he has received.

Wishing all the sick Rotts a great day.

Jodie

[grumpette]

Thank you very much cavNrott for your reply.

It is very much appreciated, along with the updates on how Sophie and you are doing.

I hope that you are all having a peaceful, happy day today and enjoying the gentle sunshine.

Hugs and lots of love to Sophie, Kiesha and Zed.

Also a big thank you to you Jodie for posting a reply. The more knowledge the better.

I hope you and Ollie enjoy each day that you have together.

[cavNrott]

Update on Sophie:

The oncologist is very happy with Sophie. It seems her tumour has not grown at all in the last 3 weeks. It is also less painful to the touch and the onco was able to actually apply some pressure to it without Sophie pulling her head away. At the beginning she couldn't even touch Sophie's mouth to examine her because it was so painful. She had to rely on the vets observations and the pathology results. This means we now not only have her pain under control but the metronomic protocol is definitely working. Sophie's blood and urine test results were good.

That the tumour has not increased in size is a big deal. It was growing at an alarming rate before, I could see it getting bigger every day. It also hasn't gone back to the blue colour it was before we started this therapy. It also seems to have flattened out more than it was.

We don't know what's happening on the inside but what is visible is very encouraging. We're assuming that since what we can see is a huge improvement, that what we can't see is probably going along the same lines.

I admit I was very sceptical about this treatment and agreed to it only on the proviso that if Sophie felt sick then we would cease immediately and use only strong pain relief for her remaining days. This improvement is far better than expected. I know this can change at any time but Sophie is no longer having any bad or painful days. She has a good quality of life and that's what I want for her

We have no change in medication because after a couple of additions and subtractions we seem to have hit on the right mix of drugs to slow the rate of progression of her cancer.

I've been advised not to walk her due to her immune system being compromised. That's ok, she's happy to have a game in the backyard. I figured this anyway so I haven't taken her outside the property since her walk early on New Years morning.

Despite my scepticism Sophie is also being treated by a Reiki master. That it will do no harm and may in fact do a heap of good is why I decided to take this route as well as conventional medicine. Many people assured me that Reiki does work so despite my doubts I decided to go ahead with it.

All in all things are better than expected by the vet, the oncologist and me.

Apart fom Sophie's joint problems she's never had a sick day in her life so I think her general state of good health prior to the cancer has helped in all of this.

Her next oncology appointment is in 3 1/2 weeks.

[cavNrott]

Jodie, thanks for that info. That Ollie is still going strong is testament to your dedication.

Hope Kiesha and Zed are doing well too. Sending good thoughts to all dogs and owners.

[Allerzeit]

Anne, that is excellent news! I'm so please to hear that Sophie is coping so well - whatever it is you and your veterinary team are doing, keep at it so we can see more reports like this

With the Reiki - as you said it can't hurt, and you just don't know - you do hear reports of it helping in people and animals.

Please give Sophie cuddles from me and tell her to keep at it!

BP - how is Keisha? Please give her cuddles from me as well

[grumpette]

cavNrott

That is fantastic news.

I am absolutely rapt that Sophie's quality of life is excellent and that the cancer progression has slowed.

A big congratulations to yourself for knowing your girl so well and sticking to your plans.

Also huge hugs to Sophie for trusting in you so much and helping by being the perfect patient.

[Flaves]

Anne that is WONDERFUL news!!

[rakaaz]

Good to see you posting back here CnR, thats some positive news for you.

As always thinking of you all daily.

[cavNrott]

Thanks guys. I'm terrified to put the mozz on Sophie but this tumour has not only slowed down, it has not grown at all in the past 3 weeks. I'm hardly even game to say that but it seems that's what's happened. I wonder if to hope for a period of remission is pie in the sky. I guess it is.

The oncologist said at the beginning of all this that the best we can aim for is to slow down the progression. Then again, no one expected Sophie would still be here at this stage.

The onco told me today that it is unusual to see a cancer dog show an improvement at each visit as Sophie is doing. She said usually you can see the decline in the dogs but with Sophie she sees improvement. I think that has a lot to do with adequate pain relief though and Sophie is very stoic, she doesn't give up easily.

The Reiki master says that cancer can be arrested with appropriate conventional medicine together with the healing energy used in Reiki. I'm too scared to even think that could happen to Sophie and besides if I get my hopes up too far instead of dealing with it one day at a time I'll lose focus and maybe miss something I should be watching for.

[Chell]

Thankyou so much CavNrott for your update on Sophie. It is so wonderful to hear that she is comfortable and having good quality of life.

Thanks again for posting the updates, I know it must be very hard for you and BP to post here sometimes and putting it down in writting can be difficult and emotional but it is really appreciated and I hope you are gaining some strength from all of our warm thoughts and words of support that can help you be stronger for your special rotts.

[Staffyluv]

Update on Sophie:

The oncologist is very happy with Sophie. It seems her tumour has not grown at all in the last 3 weeks. It is also less painful to the touch and the onco was able to actually apply some pressure to it without Sophie pulling her head away. At the beginning she couldn't even touch Sophie's mouth to examine her because it was so painful. She had to rely on the vets observations and the pathology results. This means we now not only have her pain under control but the metronomic protocol is definitely working. Sophie's blood and urine test results were good.

That the tumour has not increased in size is a big deal. It was growing at an alarming rate before, I could see it getting bigger every day. It also hasn't gone back to the blue colour it was before we started this therapy. It also seems to have flattened out more than it was.

We don't know what's happening on the inside but what is visible is very encouraging. We're assuming that since what we can see is a huge improvement, that what we can't see is probably going along the same lines.

I admit I was very sceptical about this treatment and agreed to it only on the proviso that if Sophie felt sick then we would cease immediately and use only strong pain relief for her remaining days. This improvement is far better than expected. I know this can change at any time but Sophie is no longer having any bad or painful days. She has a good quality of life and that's what I want for her

We have no change in medication because after a couple of additions and subtractions we seem to have hit on the right mix of drugs to slow the rate of progression of her cancer.

I've been advised not to walk her due to her immune system being compromised. That's ok, she's happy to have a game in the backyard. I figured this anyway so I haven't taken her outside the property since her walk early on New Years morning.

Despite my scepticism Sophie is also being treated by a Reiki master. That it will do no harm and may in fact do a heap of good is why I decided to take this route as well as conventional medicine. Many people assured me that Reiki does work so despite my doubts I decided to go ahead with it.

All in all things are better than expected by the vet, the oncologist and me.

Apart fom Sophie's joint problems she's never had a sick day in her life so I think her general state of good health prior to the cancer has helped in all of this.

Her next oncology appointment is in 3 1/2 weeks.

What fantastic news for you and Sophie. I remember when Ollie was first treated, I was unsure about it all and it did not seem like it was working at first and he also seemed like he was unwell - but then one day it all started to fall into place and he seemed to get better and better. I hope and pray that is the case for you and Sophie. May the rest of her days be happy and pain free.

Jodie, thanks for that info. That Ollie is still going strong is testament to your dedication.

Hope Kiesha and Zed are doing well too. Sending good thoughts to all dogs and owners.

All the best to the other ill boofers...

You are welcome CnR. I decided from day one that I would at least try alternative medicine and it is the best thing I did. I don't think it is what has put him in remission but it definitely kept him well while he was fighting to stay with me.

Glad I could help in some small way....

[Dellahar]

Great to hear the news sounds promissing Cavnrott, Keisha and BP you are still in my thoughts wishing you all the best.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Thanks guys. I'm terrified to put the mozz on Sophie but this tumour has not only slowed down, it has not grown at all in the past 3 weeks. I'm hardly even game to say that but it seems that's what's happened. I wonder if to hope for a period of remission is pie in the sky. I guess it is.

The oncologist said at the beginning of all this that the best we can aim for is to slow down the progression. Then again, no one expected Sophie would still be here at this stage.

The onco told me today that it is unusual to see a cancer dog show an improvement at each visit as Sophie is doing. She said usually you can see the decline in the dogs but with Sophie she sees improvement. I think that has a lot to do with adequate pain relief though and Sophie is very stoic, she doesn't give up easily.

The Reiki master says that cancer can be arrested with appropriate conventional medicine together with the healing energy used in Reiki. I'm too scared to even think that could happen to Sophie and besides if I get my hopes up too far instead of dealing with it one day at a time I'll lose focus and maybe miss something I should be watching for.

Hi cavNrott i wondered where this thread had gone. I was scrolling and saw unwell rotties with your sig so immediatly clicked and now I am here. You may have seen that I am diconnected at home at the mo with 2 defuct puters so can only read and post at work. Hence still at work but DOLing.

Great that Sophie is doing so well. More 's from the Brunswick East Cavs and food supplier.

Will read rest of posts later to see how they others are doing.