Diabetic Dog

[baifra]

Thats fantastic Kadbury. Im so happy for you and Spice. What an inspiration you and her are!!

The beauty of the diabetic routine is that it really is more stressful for you than it is the dog!! They know they are getting food after the injections so it's no big deal for them!!

She has proven to be very resilient, What a great dog. Good luck!!

[Kadbury]

As promised I have taken some more pics today.

Well we have had a bit of an up and down BSL still but I hope it will eventually stabilize a little better.

Last night it was 31.2 at 11pm......she was shaking so I gave her another 5u of insulin.?????

this morning at 7am it was 14.2 and a mch happier dog...

Can you please let me know if I did the right thing....I will be talking to the Vet today......cheers Kay

This wonderful dog can tell the TIME -hen it is time for her blood test - every three hours she comes into the Kitchen - Drops with a groan.

Looks at the Glucometer - relaxes

waits for the Click of the Lancet

Then listens for the Beep Beep

Then sits up for her Treat.

She is soooooooo wonderful that words can't explain How I feel about her.

I had a dream last night of walking a Healthy Happy Fluffy White Dog through the local Park......She had a Purple Coat on with White Shepherd Rescue on one side

and I am a Diabetic Dog on the other......

This Dream will be a reality soon.

[Kadbury]

Just a reminder for all the New People reading Hope's story this is the Bank Account for Hope.

She will have many ongoing Vet Bills and an Eye Specialist appointment is being arranged......cheers

I love this pic.......looks like she is actually laughing.....

Bendigo Bank

White Shepherd Rescue

BSB 633-000

A/C 132589755

[anthony mazzeri]

As promised I have taken some more pics today.

Well we have had a bit of an up and down BSL still but I hope it will eventually stabilize a little better.

Last night it was 31.2 at 11pm......she was shaking so I gave her another 5u of insulin.?????

this morning at 7am it was 14.2 and a mch happier dog...

Can you please let me know if I did the right thing....I will be talking to the Vet today......cheers Kay

You did the right thing as she was hyperglycemic. The shaking symptom is actually similar to the opposite extreme of hypoglycemic, so the meter is very helpful! I would advise whenever you get an extreme reading that you're not expecting to repeat the test before giving extra insulin just in case the meter is in error which sometimes happens. Especially if she looks otherwise okay. But in this case she was shaking so the reading matched the symptoms and you did well.

Sooner or later, you're also going to get the opposite situation where her levels may drop to zero, so it's good to have some glucose powder on hand in an emergency. Just the standard drink powder from the supermarket and keep it where you can get to it quickly. If it happens, just rub the powder into her gums and mouth, or add a spoonful to water and let her drink it if she's able to.

Sounds like you know what you're doing and she's going to be okay and do well. I used to aim for 6 to 12, with 14 to 18 as the maximum level, which is usually before the meal/insulin. Basically keep it below 20 at all times if you can. You'll never be able to get perfect stability of the same levels day to day (at least I never did), so it's always going to be a balancing act from my experience.

Damn, I just read the rescue thread for this dog. I can't believe a dog with muscular control issues and cataracts wasn't immediately ringing loud 'diabetes' bells in the vet's ears at first sight and test for it immediately. I see she already has cataracts, so unfortunately she will lose her sight totally as they cloud over 100% and probably much sooner rather than later. Whatever sight she has now will be like looking at vague shapes through a thick cloud of smoke. When total sight loss occurs, cataract surgery is not cheap as I mentioned before but it's possible to have just one eye operated on to give her good vision in the one eye, which is better than no eyes at all.

She was in a really bad way, so you've been doing really well and should be congratulated. Keep up the good work, she looks a wonderful dog!

[Kadbury]

Thanks Anthony for your kind words and advice, Spice did have a 4.3 reading one day and I rubbed honey on her gums ....she was looking ok but dribbling a lot ......The Vet said that was great so I carry honey with me now......Is that ok...it worked. But would glucose work quicker....??????

cheers.

[baifra]

Thanks Anthony for your kind words and advice, Spice did have a 4.3 reading one day and I rubbed honey on her gums ....she was looking ok but dribbling a lot ......The Vet said that was great so I carry honey with me now......Is that ok...it worked. But would glucose work quicker....??????

cheers.

If honey works thats fine. You can also get a jar of glucose from the party decoration isle of the supermarket. You know where they keep the icing decorations? I got a jar of that and then went to a camping store where i bought little screw top canisters that waterproof matches are kept in. I decanted the glucose (which is slightly yellowish but mainly clear looking) into the containers and always keep one in my handbag, one in the car and one tied to her lead so there is one handy where ever i am. Paranoid i guess but i wanted the added security of always being prepared!!

Dont rub too much into the gums at once as you can get a rebound hyperglycemic event which the vet said can be dangerous. The glucose/honey or whatever you choose to use will work very quickly when rubbed on the gums so you will see her responding to the sugar and be able to gauge how much is enough. Always take her to the vet immediately if she has a 'hypo'.

It sounds like your doing a wonderful job. Your catching on a lot quicker than i did! For moinths i didn't want to leave Sammy alone, Even for a little while 'just in case' !!

Anthony, you are not kidding about the price of cataract operations for dogs. My mothers Rottie has them and was quoted $3,000 per eye!!! Needless to say Mum is still 'thinking' about it!!

[anthony mazzeri]

4.3 is actually a near perfect reading very close to the normal level in non-diabetic dogs. I'd say just let her enjoy the low levels while she can as that is when she will be feeling most normal. You really only need to resort to the honey or glucose as an emergency option if it keeps going down and she actually goes hypoglycemic by hitting zero and going into the trembles.

When it's at 4.3 she's still not in the panic zone yet, so if you want to raise her levels you can just give her a bit of food (I used to just give a slice of vegemite toast) to build the sugars back up slowly as she digests it, rather than the rapid rise from honey/glucose.

Baifra, the price seems to have gone up from $2,500/eye four years ago. I would have thought it would have gone down as it becomes a more common procedure. Still not cheap!

PS. Interesting how the google ads on this thread are relevant to the topic of diabetes.

[Kadbury]

A bit of sad news this morning, Spices BSL went up over 33.3 so I rushed her off to the Lort Smith last night at 7.30 as it was the closest and my Vet was at a meeting and not going to be home until after 10pm

Spice is in Intensive care on a drip and having a fasting BSL done today. The Vet said she looked really good for one with such a high Level.

Spice will probably be there for a couple of days and I can visit her though.

The level could have spiked due to a minor infection, possibly her teeth because they are so warn from chewing on the bars of whatever the had her locked up in.

They have her on a drip and are starting anti biotics

I will keep you all posted on her progress.......as you can imaging I am a mess....but I know she will be fine.

[Kadbury]

Just rang the Lort Smith (couldn't wait till 12.00)

Spice is alert, Happy, and very friendly this morning - she is still on the drip...and is Hungry and Happy

Her levels are at 23.3 and they are doing 2 hourly BSL

I am off to visit her because visiting is between 12 and 6.......

Thanks guys.....I will report back.

[baifra]

Hang in there,

You are doing really well. As Spice has so many other health issues, there are going to be set backs but her will to live is obviously very strong and you are providing her the best of care.

Good to hear that she is alert and wanting her tucker!! Gotta love the cheeky ones.

[Kadbury]

:D Just got back from visiting Spice and she was soooooooooo happy to see me but looked so funny with a collar on her head...she pulled the drip out this morning LOL........she is the Love of all the staff and I put a picture on her cage of what she looked like on the 5/1/08 when LMWS first got her.....they were all so shocked and happy with her progress

Her BSL was down to 19.1 and the ICU Nurse said she is so sweet lets them take her blood without a flinch...

I will go back again in the morning or maybe even tonight.....can't stay away.

Thanks for the support.

[dwynwen]

Just remember when shopping that the label has to actually say methyl-cobalamin and not cyano-cobalamin, which is just standard vitamin B12 you can buy in any chemist and won't make much difference.

This compounding chemist sells oral methylcobalamin, although it's a lozenge (tricky dosage method for a dog) - quite expensive too.

[baifra]

Just remember when shopping that the label has to actually say methyl-cobalamin and not cyano-cobalamin, which is just standard vitamin B12 you can buy in any chemist and won't make much difference.

This compounding chemist sells oral methylcobalamin, although it's a lozenge (tricky dosage method for a dog) - quite expensive too.

Thanks for that!! Much easier than getting it shipped over from the USA. The other ones were lozenges aswell so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[dwynwen]

This compounding chemist sells oral methylcobalamin, although it's a lozenge (tricky dosage method for a dog) - quite expensive too.

Thanks for that!! Much easier than getting it shipped over from the USA. The other ones were lozenges aswell so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I imagine they'd do a custom job for you - dog knows how much it would cost though!

I have bought from them via the website and been happy with their service.

[anthony mazzeri]

Just got back from visiting Spice and she was soooooooooo happy to see me but looked so funny with a collar on her head...she pulled the drip out this morning LOL........she is the Love of all the staff and I put a picture on her cage of what she looked like on the 5/1/08 when LMWS first got her.....they were all so shocked and happy with her progress

Her BSL was down to 19.1 and the ICU Nurse said she is so sweet lets them take her blood without a flinch...

I will go back again in the morning or maybe even tonight.....can't stay away.

Thanks for the support.

Sounds like she's getting good care, Kadbury.

My guy used to go over 30 every now and then and I had to give extra insulin even though I used an electronic scale to measure out exactly the same amount of food (Hill's Seniors due to the lower fats etc) for each meal every day and no other snacks at all in order to keep everything as stable as possible. But still, there'd be big spikes or dips for no apparent reason, so from my experience perfect 100% stability is virtually impossible and you have to always be ready to deal with any potential rollercoaster ups and downs.

As I mentioned before, you're trying to get her weight up (as opposed to my guy where I had to get his weight down), so you're going to have spikes as her diet increases and you have to increase the insulin to match. Once her weight stabilises at the ideal level and you can start giving her the exact same amount of food every day to maintain that weight, then her sugar and insulin needs should (in theory) also be a lot more stable too.

[anthony mazzeri]

This compounding chemist sells oral methylcobalamin, although it's a lozenge (tricky dosage method for a dog) - quite expensive too.

Thanks for that!! Much easier than getting it shipped over from the USA. The other ones were lozenges aswell so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Even though it's a US website, they actually ship from Fiji of all places, not America. I assume because the US company is owned by an Indian-born doctor who probably has Indian contacts in Fiji (Indian as in Bombay, not American-Indian). It's not actually made in America as there is currently only one manufacturer in the whole world (in Germany, if I recall), so it'd likely be the same lozenge wherever you buy it.

PS. That link's not working for me. It says it can't find the server.

[baifra]

This compounding chemist sells oral methylcobalamin, although it's a lozenge (tricky dosage method for a dog) - quite expensive too.

Thanks for that!! Much easier than getting it shipped over from the USA. The other ones were lozenges aswell so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Even though it's a US website, they actually ship from Fiji of all places, not America. I assume because the US company is owned by an Indian-born doctor who probably has Indian contacts in Fiji (Indian as in Bombay, not American-Indian). It's not actually made in America as there is currently only one manufacturer in the whole world (in Germany, if I recall), so it'd likely be the same lozenge wherever you buy it.

PS. That link's not working for me. It says it can't find the server.

I had no problem getting through to the site. The lozenges are 4mg and they are quite expensive at $60 for 30 loz. Iv'e ordered the 5mg ones anyway, just waiting for them to arrive!!

Sammy's back legs seem to be getting worse at quite a rapid rate. Her BSL's are stable but she seems disorientated at times and she pants a lot. We have moved to the tropics this past month but she is always in the airconditioning and no one else is hot so im wondering if her time is nearly up!!

[anthony mazzeri]

I had no problem getting through to the site. The lozenges are 4mg and they are quite expensive at $60 for 30 loz. Iv'e ordered the 5mg ones anyway, just waiting for them to arrive!!

Ouch. That's four times as much as the US site @ USD$32 for 60. That's AU$35 for 60. I've found it's always much cheaper to buy most things from America, even including shipping.

I signed up for their membership to get the discount rate (you get a monthly magazine full of ads for all their other products) because I bought so much of them it made it cheaper @ $24 for 60. And even cheaper in bulk as I'd buy them in lots of 10 @ $17.25 for 60.

How many bottles did you buy? I was giving my wei 4 x twice a day, which I upped to 6 x twice a day. Your Sammy would be much smaller so I'd recommend at least 2 x twice a day, better more. So if you bought just the one bottle, those 30 lozenges will only be about a week's worth.

Sammy's back legs seem to be getting worse at quite a rapid rate. Her BSL's are stable but she seems disorientated at times and she pants a lot. We have moved to the tropics this past month but she is always in the airconditioning and no one else is hot so im wondering if her time is nearly up!!

Don't give up on her. I'd like to help. My dog passed away eight months ago just after I ordered a new lot so I still have 8 unopened bottles of 60 x 5mg. I was planning to just use them myself (the use-by date is January next year) but I think they would be put to better use with your Sammy.

I'd like to split the offer to 4 to Kadbury and 4 to yourself if you don't mind. 4 bottles is still two months worth for Sammy @ 4 a day (2 twice a day), although she sounds like her nerve atrophy is at an advanced stage so I'd use them all up @ 8/day (4 twice a day) for a month for maximum hope of repair. It depends if Kadbury thinks Spice's legs need help at this stage as Sammy sounds more in need. Let me know if you're interested, PM me your address and I'll mail them off to you tomorrow (you'd probably get them Monday).

[Kadbury]

Oh Anthony. you are so kind....I thank you for the offer but as you state baifra and Sammy need this more than Spice at this stage as Spice has no trouble with her joints or movement at the moment

I think you are a wonderful person and so generous Anthony a Real Animal Lover....

Bless you

Baifra please take Anthonys offer to help darling Sammy

Cheers.

[anthony mazzeri]

Thanks Kadbury, that's okay. Keep in mind though that it would probably work better as a preventative to keep the nerves in good condition compared to as a cure after the nerves have already degenerated. Much easier to keep nerves in healthy condition than trying to rebuild damaged ones.

I only started giving my dog this B12 after his legs had already started degenerating (as I mentioned, when he was already struggling and after the vet and specialist told me there was nothing I could do to help him) and so always wondered what would have been if I had just been giving him maybe one a day from the very beginning like a daily vitamin pill. Whether his legs would have stayed fine all along through to the end. If it had worked that way, it would also have ended up a lot cheaper than the amount I ended up giving him every day - an ounce of prevention as they say.

PS. The warning sign to watch for the beginning of her legs starting to go is when you see her standing up straight but her hindquarters appear to drop slightly, as if someone's pushing her rump down but she's resisting it.