harper Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 I have been wondering about this recently. I have heard people say they have a dominant dog or a submissive dog but is there such thing as a submissive/dominant dog? Is it often a dominance thing when a dog displays submissive body language with attention seeking behaviour such as whining? Is there a canine equivalent of passive aggression or is that just humanising? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 I wonder this too. I have a bitch that in many ways comes across as quite manipulative and uses passive aggressive submission to try and get things. This seems like anthropomorphising so be great to hear maybe what's really going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 (edited) Bosko - I'm not exactly sure what you mean. But if you are asking if the dog who (for example) "whines" because he/she wants something is actually being "dominant" ...... not necessarily. Could be that the dog has simply learnt (generally as a result of our compliant responses) that whining will get him/her what he/she wants and so uses it, without it being relevant to dominance or submission. Even you making eye contact as a result of the whining dog can be enough to reinforce the behaviour. My avatar girl was a "whiner". If I inadvertently made eye contact when she whined (to check out what was up), it certainly encouraged her (usually it was because she wanted her blanket put over her :p). She was by no means dominant in our social-relationship. I used to use my peripheral vision to "look" but otherwise ignored her. The whining would stop and a bit afterwards I would then put her blanket over her. I'm such a tough owner :D. Is this what you mean? Edited January 20, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Suzanne Clothier talks about 'obnoxious submission' in dogs. A good example is the kind of dog who grovels and makes all the right submissive gestures but crowds other dogs and gets in their faces when they do it. I know a couple of dogs like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardog Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 "A Dog's Mind" by Bruce Fogle is an excellent book for reference with regard to your query Tess and Bosko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP* Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 I've seen a couple of behaviourists who have basically said yes. I thought my bitch was being submissive when she was actually manipulating me and if I ignore her overtures she gets shirty. The behaviourists said this type of behaviour is more often seen in females or small dogs. A dog will use whatever behaviour it thinks will help it get its way and if it doesnt have brute force or size to help it, why not manipulate by acting submissive. An article I read said this behaviour if often seen in intelligent breeds - so there you go. I found a few articles on the web about it too, once it was pointed out to me, so it is not unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harper Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) My dog whines and I try to ignore him but I think I sometimes just glance over without even realising it and also because it sometimes startles me and I check to see if he is ok. So I know I intermittently reinforce it. I'll have to start using my peripheral vision a bit more too erny. I was mainly trying to use the whining thing as an example but I probably should have used similar to poodlefans....... Quote A good example is the kind of dog who grovels and makes all the right submissive gestures but crowds other dogs and gets in their faces when they do it. ETA.... Do dogs ever use submissive gestures as a means to increase their heirachy in the pack? Edited January 21, 2008 by bosko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddii Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 *caro said: The behaviourists said this type of behaviour is more often seen in females or small dogs. A dog will use whatever behaviour it thinks will help it get its way and if it doesnt have brute force or size to help it, why not manipulate by acting submissive. An article I read said this behaviour if often seen in intelligent breeds - so there you go. I found a few articles on the web about it too, once it was pointed out to me, so it is not unusual. You've just described by girl to a T. She's a small (470mm) BC bitch (on a number of levels). To anyone who doesn't know me/her she is completely submissive to me. To those who do know me/her she is a headstrong little cow with an evil streak. She's a lovely dog, but just works very hard to please me and get what she wants - not necessarily in that order. A couple of trainers have picked it up very quickly and pointed it out to me so we work very hard on not letting it happen. Classic example on the weekend - She's had an injury so I pulled her out of flyball training early to avoid over using her leg, she whined for about 2 run and then got really cranky and started barking at me. While the other dogs bark at the game in excitement she seemed to be barking at me because I had 'forgotten' to take her out to play with her mates. It soon stopped once she realised it wasn't going to do her any good. Dogs are anothe story though - she is VERY submissive to the point of being timid in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangerineDream Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Sounds very much like Tango......he's dominant towards people in demanding attention and being territorial (in a friendly but in your face..don't forget I'm here manner) and will 'follow' you around the house by walking in front of you and watching over his shoulder....but he demonstrates submissive behaviour when he wants something or wants to avoid something (like having tablets). He stops behaving like this the minute his needs are satisfied or I stop doing to him what he doesn't want done........He's also quite dominant in his body language to other dogs. He's a champion manipulator of people - he had next door neighbour throwing the ball for him tonight - it was cold out and she was in the middle of arriving home but he still had her throwing the ball for him from the other side of the fence, but if you'd seen the lengths that he went to to get her to do it, it was quite amazing to watch . Also has the pain threshold higher than any other dog I've known (except Tegan, my old Dobe bitch) - and she was dominant too. I like the term "obnoxious submission" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now