Curing A Nuisance Barker

[ruthless]

Ok, I acknowledge that we have a problem. That's the first step, isn't it!

I've been off work for 6wks and today is my first day back. I just rang my neighbour and Chopper and Angel [mostly Chopper] have been barking for almost 2hrs. She doesn't care, but I know the one on the other side does as she already complained to the council. I'm at work and I'm so stressed.

I do the following:

Walk them for an hour followed by 20mins of chasing the ball

I always leave them with a kong/bone/rawhide or similar

I give them Rescue Remedy or Nervatona

I don't fuss over them when I leave and return

I haven't tried anti barking collars as I'm hoping to find a solution to the problem, not just mask it. I haven't tried DAP yet, not sure how effective it would be in an outdoor kennel. I could step up their training if people thought it would help. They're alone from 8-4. I don't have anyone I could ask to drop in on them.

C+A used to be separated, but we took the centre panel out of their run in the hope that having each other would alleviate the boredom. My neighbour said she heard them fighting but it didn't sound bad. I really hope she's right.

They have been left alone for periods over the last 6wks, but not in their runs. I would keep the Staffies inside except Ivan freaks out when he's out and they're in. Today we had people staying so they were only put outside at 11.30 [after a 2nd walk]. The barking started 2hrs later and has been going on ever since.

What else can I do :D I'm so upset that the dogs are this stressed/bored :p

[Erny]

I haven't tried anti barking collars as I'm hoping to find a solution to the problem, not just mask it.

Using an anti-bark device is not necessarily "masking" the problem. It is a matter (as best as able) of working out what the cause is (eg. boredom; attention seeking; inadvertent reinforcement; separation related; self-reinforcing; etc) and taking steps to reverse that and in SOME cases doing so can lead to reduction/ceasing of the barking behaviour.

But in many cases, the barking behaviour - for whatever cause - has become a "learnt" behaviour and as such the symptom needs addressing simultaneously with the cause.

How's your leadership status?

[ruthless]

I don't know :)

Chopper's great at obedience. Does that mean I'm a good leader with him as he wants to please me? If so, why's he the problem? Do I give him TOO much love so that when I'm gone he stresses?

I've read so many books, I'm on here all the time. I really should know what I'm doing. Do you think going back to basics and doing TOT and NILIF could help? How long would it take to see results?

[baifra]

I dont know if this is helpful but my grandmothers dog was a barker and when she went out she left the radio going (talk back radio sadly!!!) This actually worked!! I know your doggies are outside but what about a cheap radio on top or next to the runs? Makes them feel like they are not alone.

Edited January 16, 2008 by baifra

[ruthless]

I dont know if this is helpful but my grandmothers dog was a barker and when she went out she left the radio going (talk back radio sadly!!!) This actually worked!! I know your doggies are outside but what about a cheap radio on top or next to the runs? Makes them feel like they are not alone.

Yup, started that today too, forgot to mention it. Their runs are beside the garage, so there's one in there turned up loud enough for them to hear it.

[baifra]

I dont know if this is helpful but my grandmothers dog was a barker and when she went out she left the radio going (talk back radio sadly!!!) This actually worked!! I know your doggies are outside but what about a cheap radio on top or next to the runs? Makes them feel like they are not alone.

Yup, started that today too, forgot to mention it. Their runs are beside the garage, so there's one in there turned up loud enough for them to hear it.

Bugger!!

[ruthless]

I do have a neighbour, fellow dog lover, who doesn't go back to work until next Mon. She's offered to drop into them during the day tomorrow and Fri. Either just visit or a short walk. Do you think that's a good idea or would they just expect it in future? Would they get excited by it and take a while to settle again?

[Erny]

I don't know Ruthless. Depends on whether the cause is boredom or whatever else. And if it is attention seeking and the person comes in when the dogs are vocalising, the cause is further reinforced. Same applies if it is separation related. To know how to deal with the behaviour, you do need to try to work out what the cause could possibly be.

Obedience training is very good for regularly confirming your right to govern and therefore frequently re-affirming leadership, but obedience is not the be all and end all of it. I've known some dogs who are actually quite obedient when it comes to obedience skills, but who still perceived their heirarchy status as perhaps equal or above their owners.

What are your dogs' boundaries/limitations/guidelines/rules, generally speaking. IE What are the allowed and not allowed to do when (say) in the house? Are you frequently doing things on their terms and not your own?

[Poodle wrangler]

................................ Do you think going back to basics and doing TOT and NILIF could help? How long would it take to see results?

I don't think it would hurt at all! They're good programs for so many reasons.

Won't necessarily help with barking.

I had/ have a similar problem, but have tolerant neighbours and am not away for quite so long in the day. The dogs aren't bored, they like the sound of their own voices.

My dogs sometimes bark when playing together, though not excessively.

Antibarking ultrasonic collars are useless- they might have some surprise value for a few days, but I wouldn't waste my money (tried that).

If going for a antibarking collar, I'd go straight to the ecollars, but they're not cheap. Cheapest I found was http://vetnpetdirect.com.au/product.php?pr...at=0&page=1. I think K9 now sells this brand, too.

The dogs can get sores where the metal parts sit on their throat if you leave them on for > 8 hours, so keep that in mind. They need to sit firmly on their throat.

[ruthless]

I don't know Ruthless. Depends on whether the cause is boredom or whatever else. And if it is attention seeking and the person comes in when the dogs are vocalising, the cause is further reinforced. Same applies if it is separation related. To know how to deal with the behaviour, you do need to try to work out what the cause could possibly be.

Obedience training is very good for regularly confirming your right to govern and therefore frequently re-affirming leadership, but obedience is not the be all and end all of it. I've known some dogs who are actually quite obedient when it comes to obedience skills, but who still perceived their heirarchy status as perhaps equal or above their owners.

What are your dogs' boundaries/limitations/guidelines/rules, generally speaking. IE What are the allowed and not allowed to do when (say) in the house? Are you frequently doing things on their terms and not your own?

I think he barks cause he misses us or he's bored. It's not done in play or caused by other dogs barking or people walking past. On a normal day [ie before my holidays when he was used to being left in his run] he barked for a while at 11 and again around 3 or 4.

I started another thread a few days ago about him sitting on the sofa with me and baring his teeth at Angel when she wanted to get up. I guess he's gotten too big for his boots, so as of today we've stopped letting them on the sofa. They always sit and wait for their dinner. In fact he needs to be told ok several times before he starts eating They sleep in crates in the laundry but are occasionally let in the bed for a cuddle in the morning on the weekend. They are rarely left outside in the garden when we're home as it's not secure and they stick their noses under the fence at the old dog next door. Chopper's nowhere near as bad as he used to be, but he still pulls a bit on the lead. I guess that's a sign of him feeling like he's in charge too. However, I do love them to bits and as I've never owned dogs before I've made heaps of mistakes by mothering them too much. They get lots of attention and cuddles. They always jump on people and get very excited when we have visitors. Myself and OH just decided to put a Cesar-esque sign on the front door "No touch, no talk, no eye contact"

I think we need to do independence training.

[ruthless]

................................ Do you think going back to basics and doing TOT and NILIF could help? How long would it take to see results?

I don't think it would hurt at all! They're good programs for so many reasons.

Won't necessarily help with barking.

I had/ have a similar problem, but have tolerant neighbours and am not away for quite so long in the day. The dogs aren't bored, they like the sound of their own voices.

My dogs sometimes bark when playing together, though not excessively.

Antibarking ultrasonic collars are useless- they might have some surprise value for a few days, but I wouldn't waste my money (tried that).

If going for a antibarking collar, I'd go straight to the ecollars, but they're not cheap. Cheapest I found was http://vetnpetdirect.com.au/product.php?pr...at=0&page=1. I think K9 now sells this brand, too.

The dogs can get sores where the metal parts sit on their throat if you leave them on for > 8 hours, so keep that in mind. They need to sit firmly on their throat.

That's a lot more reasonably priced than I expected them to be. Erny, would you recommend this model?

[Erny]

Erny, would you recommend this model?

I've had discussions with Steve about different brands of anti-bark e-collars. In essence, my preference lays with the types which have a dial level control rather than ones which have auto settings. In this way you can set it to suit the dog's temperament and know that when it barks it will receive an effective but not excessive stimulation. The one that I have recommended and arranged for purchase is the Dogtra YS300 for small to medium size dogs or the Dogtra YS500 for larger dogs.

These collars also have a "pulse" setting (a vibration stim). The vibration stim activates with any of the stim levels. Over time, when your dog has begun responding well and the barking is no longer an issue, you can cover the contacts on the collar (covers are supplied) and have the collar on the "pulse" stim only. This means you can leave the collar on for longer periods, as the covers offer a protection to the dog's skin.

I've found the anti-bark e-collars the most successful, on a percentage basis. But I have found the JetAir anti-bark Collars good for quite sensitive dogs (temperament speaking). I do like to use the latter where I can, but if the barking behaviour is ingrained, the JetAir collars are not reliably successful IMO. The other disadvantage with the JetAir collars is the expense of the refill cans. If people want to try these I'd definately recommend to hire them for a week or two first. In the initial days of use it might appear that they are working, but the dog can become accustomed to the startle of the shot of air and over this period learn to accomodate it. If you find yourself going through the refill can/s too quickly it indicates your dog is barking through it and that the stimulation is not sufficiently effective to make the dog think twice about it. Hiring them to trial them is considerably cheaper than purchasing them out-right and finding they aren't having the desired effect.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Erny

[sidoney]

Re the JetCare. If you have one, you need to store it in a quiet place when not on the dog. I was wondering why mine was emptying when not on a dog ... then one day a dog barked near it, and I heard the air hiss.

[poodlefan]

Re the JetCare. If you have one, you need to store it in a quiet place when not on the dog. I was wondering why mine was emptying when not on a dog ... then one day a dog barked near it, and I heard the air hiss.

I take the batteries out when the collars aren't in use. No accidental vibration or noise triggered jets and the batteries last a lot longer

Incidentally, one of mine stopped working after 8 months. I rang Innotek who are providing a replacement new collar- no questions asked. A friend of mine with a Citronella collar from another manufacturer can't even get them to send her a part.

We can't use electronic antibarking collars here in the ACT. I'm glad my dogs have softer temperaments and that the Jet Care collars work.

Edited January 16, 2008 by poodlefan

[ruthless]

The one that I have recommended and arranged for purchase is the Dogtra YS300 for small to medium size dogs or the Dogtra YS500 for larger dogs.

At 19/20kg, would you say that Chopper is a medium or a large dog?

[DallyDolly]

Hi Ruthless,

I recently adopted two dogs that weren't used to having neighbours anywhere within a 10k distance. So if the neighbours moved they barked, especially at night. Afer two nights of sleeplessness and no reduction in the barking, i did some work on the net, and found these Husher Muzzles. http://www.vetstop.com.au/infoh/husher.htm

They have worked a dream, and i personally like them better then a correction collar (well the idea of them...) Google them and you will find them available on the net, but we bought our first one at our local vet - just ring round to see if they've got them. I then bought them directly from the company which was the cheapeast around $22 or so dollars. But i've also seen them on the net for about $27 or so...Petalia was too expensive around $50.

Anyhow they were useful for me - good luck with the barking issue and i hope you find a way to resolve it.

Cheers,

Dolly.

p.s I just read over that and it sounds awfully like an advertisment - i'ts not, i really am just a normal (well freaky, but...) person, not a seller of these!

[ruthless]

Thanks Dolly, but I'd actually be happier using an anti-barking collar. When I leave I give him kongs/bones/rawhide/toys etc to help prevent boredom. If he was wearing a husher muzzle he wouldn't be able to get his mouth around any of those things. He'd probably develop worse behaviours as a result!

[BrunoBella]

One thing you could try for improving choppers aloneness skills is to spend less time with him yourself when you're at home. I do this with my two whenever I have to go away for a while and it works really well. Sorta like getting them used to being alone without you being gone. You could then also pull him up for barking if you're here.

BP

[ruthless]

One thing you could try for improving choppers aloneness skills is to spend less time with him yourself when you're at home. I do this with my two whenever I have to go away for a while and it works really well. Sorta like getting them used to being alone without you being gone. You could then also pull him up for barking if you're here.

BP

That's what I want to learn more about. As it is they're on their own for at least 8hrs 5 days. When we get home should they not be allowed in the same room as us all night? How many hours is acceptable? I don't want to be cruel, they really crave our company.

If we get strict with them can we relax the rules eventually? After how long? Why have dogs if they're never allowed be with you

[BrunoBella]

That's what I want to learn more about. As it is they're on their own for at least 8hrs 5 days. When we get home should they not be allowed in the same room as us all night? How many hours is acceptable? I don't want to be cruel, they really crave our company.

If we get strict with them can we relax the rules eventually? After how long? Why have dogs if they're never allowed be with you

This is definitely a temporary step. I knew I'd have to leave my dogs in the pen for a whole day and that they weren't used to this. I put them in for half an hour or an hour a day and occassionally for four hours so they got used to it. Because I was still there I could work on their staying quiet in the pen. The rest of the time they can come inside as well. It might only take a few weeks for them to learn to be quiet in your run. I know this sounds cruel but you are teaching the dogs to be independent which is what they need to be to be happy.

I don't know if this will work on your dogs but it did help heaps with mine.