Dilemma

[scratchcat]

Hi everyone,

I have posted a few times in here and everyone has always been so helpful I thought I'd try again for some advice. I'll try to keep this short as I can but need to explain the situation. I have a small terrier x that I inherited from my elderly parents who could no longer look after him. I also have an 11 month old American Bulldog, 2 cats and a cockatiel. The old dog is about 17 years old and we've had him for about 2 years now. I have no doubt we gave him a new lease on life. Anyway, he's partially blind and deaf and going a bit senile. Problem is he wakes up at all hours of the night and barks at nothing. Obviously going a bit nutty at his age but other than that he eats, drinks and toilets well and is always happy to see me. BUT, his barking at all hours is driving my sleepless hubby nuts and hubby has said he thinks its time. We've tried a few things to stop the barking and the old dog is even on valium from the vets. Valium worked for awhile but the barking has started up again in the last few weeks. I sometimes think my hubby is right and for our sanity it may be time but I just can't bring myself to do it. Other than his barking at night, he seems pretty happy and I just can't imagine myself taking a happy dog to the vet to be PTS. Unfortunately I now have an unhappy husband! Any advice / thoughts / options would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[Becky in Oz]

Is the dog put in a crate at night to sleep? Then cver crate ike you would a bird cage for him to sleep?

What does your vet suggest?

17 is old, but if the dog still has some quality of life, he may have some time left, too.

It's a hard one. Curious to see what others say.

[The Spotted Devil]

Have you considered consulting a vet that specialises in geriatric care? There are more vets that do this as our animals are living longer. It does sound like the onset of dementia but that certainly doesn't negate quality of life for the dog......just yours at times by the sound of it

[scratchcat]

Hi Becky in Oz,

Yes he is crated at night and tends to bark more if covered, I've tried that as well but thanks for the suggestion. This is what I'm hoping for. Ideas etc of things I can at least try if I haven't already.

Vet just says it's our decision.

I'm having a really hard time making this decison. Obviously I know what hubby would prefer and I guess he's waiting for me to agree. I just can't seem to bring myself to do it without knowing I've tried everything else which is why I'm on here.

[Janba]

I put my old BC down almost 3 years ago because of senility. He was almost totally blind and deaf but physically very healthy. The problem was the senility and the state of confusion that he seemed to be in and the effect he was having on my other dog as he was getting very grumpy with her. The senility was slowly getting worse.

It was a hard decision to make but I don't regret it. He went while he still relatively happy and he had had a good life. One of the things I will not do is keep a dog alive for me because I can't bear the thought of their loss or because of what people might say. My vet was also very supportive of my decision.

I would take him to the vet and have another talk to him about what you can do as there are drugs and prescription diets for senility. Whatever decision you make he has had a good long life and deep down inside you will kow when it is time.

[Janba]

Vet just says it's our decision.

The vet cannot come straight out and say put him down unless there is a serious reason for it. My vet when Boot was given his wings that he thought my timing of doing it was about right, but I had had to make the decision. He listened to me before hand and told me what was happening to his brain and how it was likely to progress, but didn't influene me either way.

[hopenfox]

My 14year old is blind and deaf. He lives with my parents and sometimes wakes at night, barking or upset. He just needs a short pat to reassure him he's still safe and not alone, and is happy to go back to sleep.

Maybe you could try moving his crate into your room so you can try this the moment he starts barking? Dogs start as puppies, turn into dogs, then in old age, often revert to puppy-ness again (mentally). He may just need reassurance...

[montall]

Ear plugs for hubby maybe.

That sounds flippant but I don't mean it to be. Sorry you are faced with this. It's difficult isn't it. We have faced it in the past. An old cat and a year later an old dog, both with dementia setting in but otherwise they seemed happy enough. That was our rationale but eventually we still had to make the decision. By then it was unavoidable, the cat had started to pace uncontrollably and eventually jumped off our very high verandah. It's a miracle she wasn't killed in the fall. The dog developed cancer finally and went down hill really fast but if we had made the decision sooner we could have saved him some pain. I often look back on those days and wonder if they were really as happy as we wanted to believe they were or whether we were keeping them alive for us and not for them.

Only you know if that's what you are doing or not, but if you are really convinced that he is happy enough then all I can think of is ear plugs for hubby or maybe a stronger sort of sleeping pill of sorts from the vet. Something that will make him sleep through the night.

[JulesP]

I do feel for you as my ex-husband would have gone nuts about the dog barking all night.

[Echo]

I agree with Montall.

Earplugs could well be worth a try. I have used them myself, and I was sceptical as to how well they would work.

I found them to be comfortable (didn't really know they were there) but the main thing was they were very effective.

Another thing you might like to try, is leaving a night light or small lamp on during the night, so when the dog wakes, it is not in complete darkness. This may stop the dog becoming distressed and then barking.

Cheers

Julie

[Janba]

This may stop the dog becoming distressed and then barking.

Changes in sleep patterns is one of the symptons of CDS as is abnormal barking and howling. It often has nothing to do with stress but is part of the deteriotation of the brain.

Edited January 15, 2008 by Janba

[Christina]

Can only think to try sleeping pills from your vet for him. It must be annoying but if he is enjoying life & this is the worst he is doing its worth a go. He is probably getting confused about noises in the night with his senses going. I had to have one of my senile dogs pts 18 months ago,so hard but he got very bad, plus other problems. So sorry what a dilemma.

[baifra]

A dog is there for better or for worse i say!! If the doggie seems to enjoy life still, then PTS is not an option. Saying that, sleep deprivation is agony so i really feel for you. Good luck!!

[kamuzz]

Another thing you might like to try, is leaving a night light or small lamp on during the night, so when the dog wakes, it is not in complete darkness. This may stop the dog becoming distressed and then barking.

If puppy tricks are worth trying, then how about a ticking clock or softly playing radio to give him some background noise?

Agree with you that this is such a hard decision to make. You need to be comfortable that the time has come for your own peace of mind.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I have a very similar situation with one of my old dogs (I have 2 with dementia but they have quite different symptoms apart from the getting lost easily factor).

She barks in the middle of the night, if I pick her up she just goes round and round on the doona and can't settle. Can't lock her in anywhere or she will bark her brains out.

She barks frequently on our walks (at nothing) and also while she's eating etc.

Luckily I live alone but it is very difficult to cope without enough sleep, she goes through periods where she's worse than others. She's also storm phobic and I have her on a new tablet from the vet when a storm is coming - she is very settled with one of these. Forget their name - they are pnik and are not a tranquiliser but like prozac for dogs.

Edited January 15, 2008 by dogmad

[sheree_e4]

Maybe try hills science diet B/D, I know some here on DOL don't like hills but if it means the dog can live a longer happier last few months I think it is worth it.

Canine b/d*

For the Nutritional Management of Dogs with Behavioral Changes Associated with Brain Aging

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[scratchcat]

Thankyou everyone for your replies and suggestions. I have tried many of the ones you have mentioned except for the earplugs for hubby!! He has gone away for work for a night or two so I will suggest them when he gets back. I think I may also go back to the vet to see if they have any other medication to offer. They didn't seem to have sleeping tablets as such for a dog which is why he was put on valium. We started on half a tablet and are now on one whole one a night just before bed. Even a whole seems to have lost its affect and that was the highest dose recommended for the little one. My hubby did suggest taking them for himself

As I mentioned earlier, he's partially blind and deaf and a little slower on his feet but other than that he seems happy. When we first took him home from my parents he was so much worse and used to stare at a wall in the daytime and bark as well as at night. I changed his diet, let him sleep inside at night and spend a lot more time with us. (My parents had lost all interest in him). I have no doubt he became much better with the change of lifestyle we have given him. At the time we had an old rotty and even though they weren't "friends" they both seemed content with the knowledge that the other was there. My rotty got ill and had to be PTS so I have made the decision in the past when I believed it had to be made. I know he is slowly deteriorating but at this stage while he's still wagging that tail and eating his food the decision is just too hard.

Thanks again for your help and any more suggestions are more than welcome.

[Poodle wrangler]

Sorry, I have no advice but you seem like a caring owner to make an effort to make his life as good as possible.

By all means, try some changes.

You have no reason to feel guilty if these don't work out and you do decide to PTS.

The treatment options and medications aren't great for older people with dementia, so for dogs

[Dogsfevr]

. When we first took him home from my parents he was so much worse and used to stare at a wall in the daytime and bark as well as at night

Where your parents night people??

There are meds the vet can give for senility,we have an old dog on them & it has helped her.Valium really isnt going to do much.

What we find with our oldies is they sleep all day which is logical,although we work from home we are busy during business hrs & then at night its meal time & leisure time by which stage our oldies are coming to life.

We go to bed & they dont get it so even look if you both work at activities to give her busy time.

[becks]

As setterlovr says, there is medication that the vet should have told you about that can help to sharpen up your dogs brain again. I can't for the life of me remember what it is called. There have been good results with it.