Calming A Highly Strung Dog

[m-j]

Hi

She has a lot of activity in her life do you think maybe she could be overstimulated, as she is calm in the back yard?? She may see you as the good time person and you could be her trigger to be up and ready for something to happen??? Some calming exercises like lie on this mat while I watch telly/read a book, may help if this is the case. I'm not suggesting you stop exercising her though just add other calm behaviours to the things you two do. Massage is also good for calming some dogs down.

Eggs are also high in very good quality protein, I know it hasn't affected the other dogs but I do know that different horses need differing amounts of oats to achieve fitness. My dogs went fizzy on me when they were stealing eggs, before I realised what was going on.

Dogs that can't switch off can be a right royal pain in the butt, you have my sympathy :p

cheers

M-J

[RachelleBuck]

Kelpie-i I think you may of hit the nail on the head here.

When you hold Libby you can feel her heart going at a million miles an hour in her chest, she pants like mad and her eyes look evil. She doesn't drink much but when she does it is only a little lick even after exercise. She gets herself so worked up she will snap at other dogs and even sometimes she will redirect onto me.

I have been trying everything to see what works. I have thought about chlomicalm but tried to stay away from it till last. I had a staffy with a brain tumor on chlomicalm and it turned her into a zombie and I don't want that for Libby.

As i have another KooliexBC and a Koolie I know what working dogs are like, other than the staffy I mentioned above we have only ever had working dogs. The other two only work when told to, Kelli did the herding workshop at 4 paws a couple of weeks ago and it was mentioned to me about how calm of a worker she is, she is Libby's mother. So I think that is why I am at such a loss as to what to try next with Libby.

i will try and get my hands on a copy of that book, and do you know where I could get that test done if possible???

thanks everyone for your help

[MarkS]

Hi Rachelle

My concern as from memory you say she is calm in the back yard? Am I right? If it is environmental, and her overactive behaviour is not constant..then I am not sure Hyperkinesis is the problem. As her environment shouldn't affect this.

I still tend to think it's an issue of her environment... I know I could be TOTALLY wrong..but from the info you have supplied, I think we need to look at what triggers her over active behaviour and work from there. Keep a diary and note when she is overly stimulated, and when she is calmer..Find out if there is a pattern. Looking for the triggers is I feel the first course of action.

Of course if it is constant..and she is rarely calm..then yes Kelpie-i may have hit the mark.

I am just one that believe medication isn't always the best way to go..should be used as a last resort. But thats just me..everyone is different.

Edited January 16, 2008 by MarkS

[Kelpie-i]

MarkS, you are correct. True hyperkinesis is there constantly, regardless of environment, however certain situations can and WILL trigger the chemical imbalances associated with hyperkinesis and this is where the dog starts up. As stated in my earlier post, the only way to tell whether it is true HP is to have the test done, which they don't have the facilities to do here in Oz.

I am just one that believe medication isn't always the best way to go..should be used as a last resort. But thats just me..everyone is different

Amen to that, but in the case that it just might be HK, a dog's life can be shortened due to the heart being continuously overworked as well as the continuously high stress levels. In cases like this, a drug may just be what is required to bring the dog's activity level down a few notches.

Don't get me wrong, drugs are the absolute last resort for me as they should be for all problems, whether dog related and/or for humans but Rachellebuck needs to decide what to do if she is truly uncomfortable with her dog's behaviour.

I think to do as MarkS has suggested and keep a log book of the things that trigger her episodes. I would further recommend you switch her over to a raw food diet to eliminate the possibility of her hyperactivity being caused by reactions to the various preservatives and colourings added to commercial brand dog food, whether super premium or not.

Give this 2 weeks and see how you go!

Edited January 16, 2008 by Kelpie-i

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: sometimes when testing isnt possible or practical, simply trialling the "treatment" can be worthwhile..

There are some occassions in which I have suspected a certain problem, & as the cost of the test was wildly expensive we started treatment (whilst working with my vet) & monitored the results.

If your thinking that is could be HK, starting treatment may be an option, BUT...

I am not trying to put anything on all of those offering help, but in some some cases, too many options only serve a plate of confusion..

You could simply have a dog with a low threashold to say prey drive, & as this has gone unchanelled or un checked, here we are with a bunch of maybe's & no real idea...

I am sure it has been mentioned that, pro help will be your best shot..

If you have already had pro help, & you have not gained success, seek a second opinion.

RB: Kelpie-i I think you may of hit the nail on the head here.

K9: some times its very easy to make your dogs symptoms fit into something you have so far overlooked.

HK is a very rare condition in dogs..

Edited January 16, 2008 by K9 Force

[MarkS]

Yep I agree with you Kelpie-i

I just get the feeling there are too many inconsistancies.

I have lost count of the homes I have been to because of overly active dogs. I take one look at the energy of the owner is projecting, and I see exactly what is triggering this overly stimulated dog. If this is imprinted from puppyhood, the puppy also learns to control its environment in this way... Going over the top when visitors come over, during play, when socialising with other dogs, etc, etc.

So many owners don't really understand the theory behind when you pay attention to your puppy/dog, you are also reinforcing a current state of mind. I have seen so many dogs use overly active behaviour to dominate/be assertive, because it works. Once the puppy has had this behaviour imprinted, just the tone of a voice can set the dog off into control mode. Many owners don't even realise the energy they themselves are projecting until someone points it out to them.. as 99% of the time its subconscious.

Now I am not suggesting this is the problem here, as none of us are in a position to evaluate the situation properly. But usually it takes someone outside the picture to sit back and observe the relationship between owner and dog. Just because a dog will do all the obedience commands, doesn't always mean its a dog that isn't controlling the family. We also need to look at the percentage of success of the dog responding to the commands, and the real reason behind why the dog is responding to the commands. Is the dog conditioned to expect a reward for the wrong state of mind, and if so was this dog reward whilst in an assertive state of mind, etc, etc.....

We really do need to becarful about making judgements without understanding the whole picture.

But a high drive dog, and controlling the home usually (imo) is a result of its environment.

[Kelpie-i]

Yes I agree wholeheartedly MarkS.

I too come accross mis-matched owners/dogs with these sorts of problems. It's just that I have seen a dog which I believe to have true HK many years ago and it wasn't a pretty sight, infact I really felt for the owner and the dog. She was by no means a lazy person and did most things right and tried very hard. In the end you could see it was starting to take its toll and she just wasn't enjoying time with her dog anymore. The dog was constantly in a frantic state of mind, except at night time when it slept.

The other thing that tends to lead me towards this way of thinking is that RB's other dogs are not displaying this behaviour. I saw her other dog working at the Herding clinic and she seemed like a nice relaxed dog, even when she was just waiting her turn. Usually, all the dogs in the family will show some sort of uncontrollable and hyperactive behaviour if the leader isng't doing his/her job properly. Having said that, I cannot make an assumption without seeing the dog, but just wanted to give RB another possibility. Working an already hyperactive dog in drive is not the solution, but keeping tabs on leadership and what the owner is rewarding is very important if the problem stems from mis-management.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Kelpie-i

[MarkS]

Point taken Kelpie-i

And agree with you.

And yes in regards to training the dog in drive, could be the wrong way to go. My personal opinion drive training if you are using it, should also include not training in drive. Doing the command or obeying because I said so. I feel if inexperienced people focus to much on drive training, they can inadvertantly be playing into an assertive dogs hands. Don't get me wrong, training a dog in drive is the best way to get sharp focus and quick responses. But for overall calm home discipline it's not always the best way to train.

Having said this..a high drive dog does need to be able to express its drives, so training and or working in drive to help the dog express these instincts is good..but it should also be trained with drive extinguished.

Most dogs that are trained almost entirely in drive. ie; dogsport, are usually kennelled, as they are trained purely for a purpose, and short term intensive focus, not for general home discipline.

I know my theory on all of this will get some people up in arms saying "I train my dog in drive all the time, and he is a wonderfully well behaved dog" I am just sugesting there are always exceptions to the rule.

Edited January 16, 2008 by MarkS

[RachelleBuck]

Thanks everyone for your help.

I have been training Libby in drive when doing obedience. IE: do what you are told and you get the toy to play with, only problem is the toy makes her even more excited.

So I have switched to food and get her focus that way. It works a lot better with her.

We train very calmly too when needed. Libby can not walk down our stress without barking none stop. It is like she is just so excited to get to the park. When she barks I stop, when she is quite I walk and so on and so on. Taking me 15 minutes to walk a 2 minute walk. But she is getting the picture.

I am sure that I am not perfect but I am not that bad either. I will keep working with her. I breed her and I will work though her problems with her. After all she is my little girl

[Lablover]

Little story.

When I decided to import an US working line labrador (not for public stud - just in case anyone thinks I am trying to advertise), I asked so many questions, starting with the nerves of the dogs in past generations. As my import has over 50 years of working (not a dollop of show) successful lines behind him - his sire is still the record producer. All the same, I had seen duds, on my travels, from different dams. Some say, he could have been bred with a goat, and good pups could have resulted. Everyone has opinions.

I type this reply, as extremely knowledgeable trainers, breeders and owners strongly suggested I stay away from some lines which produced poor trainability, spookiness, high strung, nervous or flighty off spring. Many would simply describe such as poor nerves.

Some lines were known as kennel pacers (to the degree of feet bleeding), self mutilation, incessant barking, and other bordom fall out etc. One old 1950's stud in particular, threw such progeny. His brothers and sisters did not.

So my question FINALLY!! is, has the sire of your dog produced "nerve" problems in other litters?

[Lablover]

or the dam, or siblings of either?

[jesomil]

Just out of curiosity, is your dog trained using positive techniques only?

[TangerineDream]

The bit about her being relaxed in the yard made me think.......I wonder if it might possibly be because she has associated you with all manner of incredibly exciting things to do whenever you two leave the backyard together, so she's excited all the time when she's with you - I suggest this because Tango (who's a very high drive dog) gets incredibly excited when he knows that something exciting is going to happen and he will spin like a top....and if my mate is coming in the car as well, then it's going to be INCREDIBLY exciting and his activity level reflects this even more. Another point that I should make is that if she is as highly attuned to you as Tango is to me, she'll pick up on you getting the tiniest bit stressed about her behaviour and this will become an intensifier...... (Tango picks up on me if my adrenaline level goes up for any reason)

These ideas might be of some help.........

To help 'sllooooooowwwwww' Tango down (he was nicknamed "Mr Overactive" by my show buddies) I've started doing the following and have found that it is starting to help...

1. I'm being consistent with my corrections at all times.

2. If he gets excited about anything I stop without a word and wait until he stops spinning or leaping about. Everytime he starts this behaviour I stop silently and stand still......and when he stops I start again....can take up to 3 minutes for him to calm 'down' sometimes and then a number of repeats.

3. He stays on his mat in the evenings before tea and he is fed an hour after I have tea (That actually made a huge difference).

4. We don't get in the car till he's calm.

5. We don't put a collar on till he's calm.

6. We don't go out the front door till he's calm.

7. In the car, if he stands up, I stop.

8. He is made to sit before he gets in the car, goes out the door, is called...

9. All my commands are sloooooow and quiet, and I've started to whisper commands rather than speak them (and blow me down that actually works!!!!)

I've found that these things are making him far more controllable and better focussed...

Hope you find something that helps...it can drive you to distraction and the more stressed you get about it (and you might not even realise how stressed it's making you), the more it will 'agitate' her - she may actually be anxious as much as anything.