Allergies ?

[Wendysdarwin]

OK! I am convinced that my dog is allergic to something. I suspect that it is something that bites him. He is constantly on anti biotics and steriods. He is VERY hairy, and only has the problem where the hair is not totally covering him. I have used Melasab, I have changed his diet, nothing seems to work apart from the a's (anti biotics) and s's.(Steriods) I would love a natural remedy. He is only almost 3. Both of us are having a hard time living with his problem. Have tried human anti histomines. They don't seem to work. Is there out there a doggie anti histomine? We have a lot of little ants here, and they are constantly on his coat, so I spect they have bitten him. (The little buggers hurt like crazy).

Would love some solid advice.

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Maybe gat a pest guy in to poison all the yard and keep him inside for a day or two!

[stormie]

Just out of interest, has anyone tried Royal Canin's sensitive skin formula? They say its been developed for atopic dogs, and its got lots of added extra's to help with the symtpoms, like fish oils, aloe vera, tumerik....

Be interested to know if anyone has actually tried it and had any success with it

I have my dogs on a homemade diet, no kibble which works well for us... I had a look on the net, but couldn't find a complete list of ingredients for that product... it would depend on the dog and if there is anything in it that they are allergic to... Most RC products have corn, so they are out for us...

this particular food was developed for atopic dogs, not dogs with food allergies.

[zayda_asher]

this particular food was developed for atopic dogs, not dogs with food allergies.

Its not actually... its claimed for all allergies. It specifically states that it is:

Limited ingredients: Reduce the risk of food hypersensitivity. Formulated with a unique protein source (Menhaden fish meal)

http://www.royalcanin.us/products/productdetail.aspx?ID=84

So its aimed at food allergies as well... but they still don't list the full ingredients. Atopic dogs will also respond to things they are allergic to if ingested. For example daisy is used in skin support as a herbal supplement and my boy is chronically allergic to daisies so I have to avoid all products with this in it weather oral, topical etc. So it is still important to know what the full ingredient list is.

Diet will only help in a general sense of giving good health and making sure the immune system can function to the best of its abilities. Yes, they have added supplements for the skin in this formula and some of those things will work for some dogs and not others, some dogs will even be allergic to some of those things. You are far better off to do a test of the supplements you want to use on your dog individually and see if they are effective for them or not and also see if they react to them. If you use a broad spectrum product like this you will a) not know what ingredient helped and b) not know what the dog reacts to if they do react. Also supplements added to dry foods are often in doses that are a) too small to be effective or b) have lost their potency by the time they reach the home (dry foods are not stored appropriately to maintain the life of a lot of oils and other supplements).

You would also still need to know if you dog has any other allergies that may be effected by eating this type of food, for example, my boy is allergic to fodder mites which live in dry foods so they are not appropriate to him... so you are still best off to know what your dog reacts to and work individually to tailor to their needs. An individual program of treatment and support will work much better in the long term than trying something that's been watered down to suit all because the dog will be getting exactly what it needs and what works for them. The bonus too is that you often save in your hip pocket because you know the dog utilises everything you give them!

[stormie]

I realise all of the above, but I was just curious whether any one with just ATOPIC dogs, not dogs with food allergies, has tried it.

It says 'reduce the risk of food hypersensitivity', meaning by using one protein source, it reduces the risk of dogs developing hypersensitivities.

I'm not trying to push it or anything. We had a new rep come around with lots of info about it, so I was interested to know whether anyone had any success, as she claimed that it was providing relief for many dogs with just atopy.

[zayda_asher]

It says 'reduce the risk of food hypersensitivity', meaning by using one protein source, it reduces the risk of dogs developing hypersensitivities.

Which wont actually reduce the risk of the dog developing an allergy, it just reduces the number of things the dog may be allergic to if it does develop adverse food reactions

But that's not what you're interested in atm, so good luck finding someone who has used it with only an atopic dog... As I stated I still would want to know the full list of ingredients where they just list things like "nutrients" because there's plenty in there for even "just" an atopic dog to react to...

[stormie]

It says 'reduce the risk of food hypersensitivity', meaning by using one protein source, it reduces the risk of dogs developing hypersensitivities.

Which wont actually reduce the risk of the dog developing an allergy, it just reduces the number of things the dog may be allergic to if it does develop adverse food reactions

But that's not what you're interested in atm, so good luck finding someone who has used it with only an atopic dog... As I stated I still would want to know the full list of ingredients where they just list things like "nutrients" because there's plenty in there for even "just" an atopic dog to react to...

Most of our clients with atopy don't have food reactions and its the typical seasonal itchies

Found this....

INGREDIENTS:

MENHADEN FISH MEAL, RICE, BROWN RICE, CHICKEN FAT, NATURAL FLAVORS, CELLULOSE POWDER, DRIED BEET PULP, VEGETABLE OIL, CURCUMIN, L-TYROSINE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, SODIUM CHLORIDE, TAURINE*, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, BORAGE OIL, VITAMINS [DL ALPHA-TOCOPHEROL ACETATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN E), INOSITOL, NIACIN, L-ASCORBYL-2-POLYPHOSPHATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C*), D-CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, BIOTIN, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE (VITAMIN B6), RIBOFLAVIN (VITAMIN B2), THIAMINE MONONITRATE (VITAMIN B1), VITAMIN A ACETATE, FOLIC ACID, VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT], ALOE VERA EXTRACT, TRACE MINERALS [ZINC AMINO ACID CHELATE, ZINC OXIDE, FERROUS SULFATE, MANGANESE AMINO ACID CHELATE, COPPER AMINO ACID CHELATE, COPPER SULFATE, MANGANOUS OXIDE, SODIUM SELENITE, CALCIUM IODATE], MARIGOLD EXTRACT, PRESERVED WITH NATURAL MIXED TOCOPHEROLS, ROSEMARY EXTRACT, AND CITRIC ACID.

[zayda_asher]

Thanks for the list of ingredients

I would be worried about the shelf life and, therefore, efficacy of some of them (heat related and age related spoilage).

Also I note that it has marigolds, so my atopic boy would definitely do badly on this product as they are daisy family and he's allergic to them... he has no food allergies, just the atopy and insect allergies. A lot of things used in skin support are things atopic dogs can be allergic to (because they are herbal, i.e.: come from plant sources), Asher is also allergic to tea tree so that wipes out a whole bunch of things we can use on him too... ingredients are really important for atopic dogs too!

Thanks for digging up the ingredients for me...

Edited January 20, 2008 by zayda_asher

[zayda_asher]

Oh and also its interesting that they say they have limited to one protein source, but in typical fashion they have used chicken fat, brown rice, beet pulp, vegetable oil etc. So its not limited at all... So they really should not be marketing it as such... But, of course, that would only apply to those with adverse food reactions...

[stormie]

I get what you mean with the daisy thing...interesting and I will mention that to her when she pops back in this week. She couldn't tell me a lot about its suitability, only that it was working well on many dogs she knew .

She did mention the shelf life due to the oils etc and said its best to buy the smaller bags as you need it, store it well etc etc. She offered me a free bag but I wasn't keen on it for my pup.

I'm sure it could be very easily duplicated by adding the extras to a normal meal.

Out of interest zayda, i'm guessing you had intra-dermal tests done?

[stormie]

Oh and also its interesting that they say they have limited to one protein source, but in typical fashion they have used chicken fat, brown rice, beet pulp, vegetable oil etc. So its not limited at all... So they really should not be marketing it as such... But, of course, that would only apply to those with adverse food reactions...

how much protein is actually in those things? I know brown rice is only about 2%, but not sure about chicken pat, beet pulp etc? I wonder if there has to be a certain percentage before its recognised as being a protein source... lol you know the answer to that one?

[zayda_asher]

I get what you mean with the daisy thing...interesting and I will mention that to her when she pops back in this week. She couldn't tell me a lot about its suitability, only that it was working well on many dogs she knew rolleyes.gif .

Yeah, like I said that's the prob with a lot of products that throw everything and the kitchen sink in! And they don't often hear about the cases where it doesn't work or isn't suitable...

She did mention the shelf life due to the oils etc and said its best to buy the smaller bags as you need it, store it well etc etc. She offered me a free bag but I wasn't keen on it for my pup.

I'm sure it could be very easily duplicated by adding the extras to a normal meal.

Unfortunately a lot of the supps they used are destroyed by the extreme heating in the cooking and extrusion process for kibble so they aren't that great even if you by a small new bag!

Out of interest zayda, i'm guessing you had intra-dermal tests done?

Yep, both of my dogs have been intradermally tested, Zayda also did food trial, but Asher has no food issues. We work closely with our dermatologist, constantly tailoring and refitting our treatment and maintenance programs to suit both dogs individually.

[stormie]

hmm you raise good points, Zayda.

I think we'll be heading down the path of the intradermal testing shortly - everything else has been covered!

[zayda_asher]

how much protein is actually in those things? I know brown rice is only about 2%, but not sure about chicken pat, beet pulp etc? I wonder if there has to be a certain percentage before its recognised as being a protein source... lol you know the answer to that one?

In a food allergy the allergy develops to the proteins that make up a food source, they all have proteins as the building blocks that make it up, so it doesn't matter how much is present. Here's an article, its human, but explains food allergy and the difference between allergy and intolerance: http://www.nutritionaustralia.org/Food_Fac...olerance_fs.asp

[zayda_asher]

hmm you raise good points, Zayda.

I think we'll be heading down the path of the intradermal testing shortly - everything else has been covered!

intradermal testing makes a huge difference! Knowing what your dog is allergic to allows you to clear the immediate enviroment of as much as possible and also lets you know what you can use safely on that dog... it makes a huge difference!!

Good luck!

[stormie]

Thanks!

Not sure how we'll cope going drug free for the time necessary before the testing, but if it means having an idea of what to avoid, then its gotta be worth it (assuming its something we can stay away from!!)

[zayda_asher]

Yeah, its hard to have them itchy and stuff again... but in the long run it does give you a lot more options... so grit the teeth and live through it!!

Yeah, there's stuff that's hard to avoid, but you can still do a lot to keep them away from stuff at home... We had to take out some plants and stuff... and we have to be on top of cleaning and dusting etc. for dust mites... but it all helps...