Denis Cody - Trainer In Vic?

[Staff'n'Toller]

Might have been December, would need to look back.

I want to know what "crack" MT made "at a particular type of training device" and what "snipe" he made at "the profit motive of a group of professionals".

MT's article in December's issue only talks about lead length. No "snipes" or "cracks" made to or at anyone or about any training devices, as far as I could see.

So I presume it must be in one of his articles prior to December.

Thing is, I don't know how long DogsVic take to publish people's letters. I also don't know how long Denis took before he prepared and finalised his letter.

Yes there were absolutely cracks made at positive trainers in the earlier editions, and those who use food in training. There have been quite a few other things but to be honest I've stopped reading the whole article and I skim now because it makes me grumpy.

Perhaps Erny, put a thread up in the show ring and see if you can get the back copies from the beginning...I'm a terrible hoarder so mine go in the recycle before they add to the mountains on my desk.

Mel.

Edited January 11, 2008 by Staff'n'Toller

[Erny]

Perhaps Erny, put a thread up in the show ring and see if you can get the back copies from the beginning...I'm a terrible hoarder so mine go in the recycle before they add to the mountains on my desk.

Mel.

Thanks Mel. Perhaps if I telephone DogsVic they'll know more readily (perhaps by a date in Denis' letter?) what specific article "tipped him over the edge".

[Janba]

Thanks Erny - oh good you were confused also

Yep. I'm comforted that you were too, Lilli. Makes me feel less dumb.

Can someone here explain ..... or perhaps guide us to the issue of DogsVic that Denis is actually referring to?

From another forum it was in the November issue (depending on how early in the month you get DogsVic).

Edited January 11, 2008 by Janba

[Natsu chan]

It'll be either November or September's articles I think causing the ruckus. They're here:

http://www.vca.org.au/Content.asp?ID=194&SubID=310

http://www.vca.org.au/Content.asp?ID=194&SubID=285

I must say that while I'm not a trainer that check chains have their place. While there are some people who will never be capable of using them appropriately for what ever reason most people can be taught how to use them correctly. Back in the late 80's when I was a member of an obedience club and a junior I vividly remember being taught how to fit and use the check chains we were required to use. The instructors were none to shy about correcting those who miss used them. Things have changed it seems or perhaps I was just lucky? I don't know I train on my own now.

A check chain is just a training tool and to be honest there are people who are perfectly capable of inflicting damage with a feather duster never mind anything else!

I have to say though I wish people would stop using them as collars!

I'm in two minds about that letter on one hand some of it is perfectly valid on the other it sounds rather needlessly critical. One training method will never work for all dogs and all handlers in all situations. I wish people would just accept that.

[Erny]

Thanks Janba. I don't have that issue. Perhaps DogsVic will send it out to me?

But in the meantime, I've been wracking my brains ....... and I've JUST remembered why the name of the writer of that letter rings a bell!!!! An (ex?) DOL Member.

(Assuming it is the Denis Cody that I'm thinking of.)

"non-ohmic" or words to such effect might jog a further memory or two.

Edited January 11, 2008 by Erny

[Erny]

Thanks NC. Admittedly I only scan-read the articles, but I can't see anywhere in them that I would regard as "sniping" or "cracking". Perhaps I need to read them more carefully.

Or perhaps (because I now suspect I am familiar with the Letter writer's views and manner of writing), it was an over-reaction and unneccessarily emotive response?

It should not go to follow that I agree or disagree with MT's training methods. I really haven't had a chance to read more than one or two of his articles.

[BJean]

it was an over-reaction and unneccessarily emotive response?

it was the emotive anti MTucker style used by Denis Cody that got my sister into an 'action' state

ie: correction chain = antiquated disaster = MTucker.

whether this was denis cody's stance or not

because of the emotvie crtitical style the letter was a bit misleading IMO.

Perhaps not to trainers and those in the know, but to someone who is looking at buying their first dog and reading training articles with interest.

Edited January 11, 2008 by lilli

[BJean]

It'll be either November or September's articles I think causing the ruckus. They're here:

http://www.vca.org.au/Content.asp?ID=194&SubID=310

http://www.vca.org.au/Content.asp?ID=194&SubID=285

Thanks Natsu

now after reading those MTucker articles I'm even more confused because MTucker is encouraging praise as well??

maybe because I don't know the training theory nuances I can't see it.

Edited January 11, 2008 by lilli

[BJean]

"non-ohmic" or words to such effect might jog a further memory or two.

if I do a DOL search will that bring up the posts?

(no idea what 'non-ohmic' is/means )

Edited January 11, 2008 by lilli

[dogdude]

I honestly don't know why Dogs Victoria print the dribble from either of them (personal snipes). They are only coming accross as childish extremists for mine.

Ahh.....now I can put a face to the AKA's!

ETA I think that he has a lot of great knowledge to share regarding trialling and training, and it's a bit of a shame that some of his strong views (and the way they are expressed) get in the way of being a closer member of the forum.

Edited January 11, 2008 by dogdude

[Jeff Jones]

"non-ohmic" or words to such effect might jog a further memory or two. biggrin.gif

[Rom]

"non-ohmic" or words to such effect might jog a further memory or two.

[Erny]

"non-ohmic" or words to such effect might jog a further memory or two.

if I do a DOL search will that bring up the posts?

(no idea what 'non-ohmic' is/means )

Lab and Poodle

or

Labs + Poodle

or

some other name I can't remember.

A search should bring up topics under the first name, at least.

[helen]

I hadn't read this until I saw the thread so wondered what the letter was about. I think the letter expresses the view of many people. There has been a thread on this forum before with the same sentinents and others have written about the articles over time, before they even started publishing letters.

I thought his idea at the end was excellent regarding publishing special achievements in their magazine, I would love to see that too. There is so many wonderful teams out there they should be showing just what is possible.

Edited January 11, 2008 by helen

[Rebanne]

Mr Tucker did indeed take pot shots etc at positive trainers and their methods in the beginning. As I recall, I have thrown my Vic dogs out, he mentioned all sorts of nasty things would befall a dog owner who went down the track of positive training. Bagged out positive trainers and their methods badly. Denis is a member of an email list I am on. I have seen Mr Tucker in action some 15 or so years ago and yes he does believe in correction collars and using them. Sold me a lovely fur saver one that I never used That was before I saw, IMO, a better way to train.

Denis' is not the only letter to be published, there were one or tow also published after th 1st couple of articles appeared along similar lines.

[Rebanne]

now after reading those MTucker articles I'm even more confused because MTucker is encouraging praise as well??

Kohler encouraged praise too.

[Rom]

"non-ohmic" or words to such effect might jog a further memory or two.

if I do a DOL search will that bring up the posts?

(no idea what 'non-ohmic' is/means )

Lab and Poodle

or

Labs + Poodle

or

some other name I can't remember.

A search should bring up topics under the first name, at least.

Poodlesplus??

[dogdude]

I thought his idea at the end was excellent regarding publishing special achievements in their magazine, I would love to see that too. There is so many wonderful teams out there they should be showing just what is possible.

I dont think anybody disagrees with his suggestions as far as ideas for the magazine goes...........its the personal snipes and manner which are the problem. To me they are both as bad as each other.

They both have methods that will help people...........so why don't they just leave out the dribble??

[Miranda]

I did some training with Michael Tucker in the early 80's, from what I have read of his articles he uses exactly the same training methods now as he did then. He was THE trainer to go to back then, held in very high regard in much the same way as Steve Courtney is now, however times and training methods have changed. He must be getting on a bit now as well.

[Erny]

Poodlesplus??

Yeah, that was another one of his names here.