Kavik Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 What do people think of Cesar Millan and his methods? I am in the USA so have been watching it on TV - I don't have Foxtel at home so don't get to see it often. He tends to throw around dominance and submission a lot, and from what I have seen suppresses drive a lot, have seen some avoidance too. His use of 'power of the pack' is interesting, you'd need good control over that many dogs to get that to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troop Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 i love him i think he is great i wish i had some of his skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushaka Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I think the pack he has is the most inspiring thing for me.... My dogs live pretty well together,but i couldnt play ball with them all at once... to watch Ceaser do that amazed me. Wat i love most,is his dedication to the "gladiators".. as in APBT's etc... To show the world what wonderful dogs they are with people and with other dogs in the right hands is exactly the kind of thing these breeds need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I watch the show all the time because I watch anything dog related, and I also read his book. My thoughts - - I don't know if the show is MEANT to be daily but watching it daily shows how repetitive it is and how it seems 'every' dog needs the same thing - a long walk. Some segments have that as the ONLY real suggestion he makes - make sure the dog walks behind you because otherwise it's trying to be dominant. Personally I look at this differently - in SOME dogs it may be dominance, but in many others it's simply because dogs walk faster and are excited to be on a walk and sniff, and walking at the pace of humans is unnatural for most and they will walk ahead if not taught so. Cesar does NO teaching of this - there is no opportunity for the dogs they show to be *trained* to walk beside the owner by first teaching and then proofing, they are just forced into it by a very short leash and a head collar, prong or check or whatever it has on. - His pack IS pretty wonderful and I love watching those bits. He is undoubtedly confident and a natural leader. - Complete lack of praising the dog in most shows. Pretty much every situation is this apparently 'dominant' dog who is cured by walking. I've never seen him suggest mental exercise for dogs in the form of training, he just tires them out physically. - Often he will say "this dog is now submissive" when it clearly isn't. Eg there was a Lab X on the show last night with ears back, whites of eyes showing and he was clearly stressed and yet we're being told he's now submissive? No way. - How come there are NO young dogs ever on the show? Young pups around 5 months of age when people DO tend to start having problems? I wonder if it's because he CAN'T suggest a long walk for these dogs? - Flooding. That Dane that was on his show that he got to walk on lino was NOT stress free and I would hate to see people copy flooding techniques on their own dog. It could easily result in bites or a very damaged relationship. He always wants the quick fix, no giving the dog any time to think and learn for itself. Some things he says are undoubtedly true - that many do spoil their dogs and shower them with affection, don't provide enough discipline etc and sometimes the answer really is simple and they just needed some consistency. But I would guess that most of the people on the show do not end up with some 'different' dog after Cesar leaves because they are only told vague generalisations like "change your energy" which are too hard for most people to even truly understand. I do think pack theory is important, but he rarely mentions any learning theory at all and places no emphasis on dogs being TAUGHT how to behave. I feel many people will watch his show and just expect their dog to sit and heel on a walk without the effort of training them because otherwise they're being dominant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roguedog Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I love Ceaser hope he comes to Australia one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 With any Television show we are only seeing so much of the picture due to time availible. I admire Cesar as a person.He had a dream and went for it!!!!He kept going till he turned his dream into reality!!!He did not let anything deter him!!!! Anybody who follows their dream and has the guts to do what it takes has my respect!!!!! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I watch his show as well as I watch anything dog related. I think it's really good to show some basics of interacting with and walking dogs. I ignore the dominance rolls, the "mouthing" with your hand and the no praise. I normally let my two walk wherever they want as long as they don't pull on the lead. I also need to walk them beside me when we walk past people or on the bike path and so I borrowed cesar's walk for that. This is the only time I use his walking techniques. He did show me that my tiniming on the martingale was off and I was rewarding too early. In summary, I think it is a good show for learning some skills as long as you realise this is not all your dog needs to know and ignore the bits you don't agree with. Cesar's handling of the pack is fantastic to watch. BellasPerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlmckay Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 It's quite amazing the difference in opinion on Cesar Milan between Australia and the UK. UK boards abhor Cesar - very few people like him, they hate his methods, and find him cruel. Try talking about him on dogpages.co.uk or rykat.org! Oz boards seem to love Cesar and his methods. My view is that I like some of his methods - I like the interrupter "shhhttt" method of his. But I do think he pushes a dog quite hard and if it cracks and lunges, he tends to deck it to the floor. The flooding is another tricky one.... the dane was clearly stressed but did "get over it" in the end. Could this have been done more gently? Possibly. But you get better TV by pushing it. However, I flood my fear aggressive GSD x Huntaway at agility shows to make her lean on me and trust me. We've got a better working relationship out of it, but I wouldn't recommend anyone else try it without knowing the inside of their dog's mind. If I had a dog for which the usual positive cheese waving wasn't working, then I would certainly up the game and start implementing some of Cesar's methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 That's all very nice and great for Cesar to have a dream and follow it, but I'd be more interested in how his TV show presents to real life dog owning people who may TRY his methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 It's quite amazing the difference in opinion on Cesar Milan between Australia and the UK.UK boards abhor Cesar - very few people like him, they hate his methods, and find him cruel. Try talking about him on dogpages.co.uk or rykat.org! Oz boards seem to love Cesar and his methods. My view is that I like some of his methods - I like the interrupter "shhhttt" method of his. But I do think he pushes a dog quite hard and if it cracks and lunges, he tends to deck it to the floor. The flooding is another tricky one.... the dane was clearly stressed but did "get over it" in the end. Could this have been done more gently? Possibly. But you get better TV by pushing it. However, I flood my fear aggressive GSD x Huntaway at agility shows to make her lean on me and trust me. We've got a better working relationship out of it, but I wouldn't recommend anyone else try it without knowing the inside of their dog's mind. If I had a dog for which the usual positive cheese waving wasn't working, then I would certainly up the game and start implementing some of Cesar's methods. I don't think the Dane was really over it. He was still panting heavily and looking stressed to me, though he didn't have much choice but to walk on it anyway. Many dogs would have just shut down and probably not made it to the TV. I think when it comes to these kinds of things he really SHOULD be thinking of how his TV show may effect real life dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Some of the dogs look very stressed, which worries me. Along with the alpha rolls and stringing dogs up. And the lack of rewards/reinforcement. But his pack is very interesting to watch. Lots of dogs there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I like that he's a big believer in treating dogs like dogs, having strong leadership and providing ample exercise. The regular appearance of pit bulls as the stable control dogs is really awesome too I read one of his books and was really inspired by it. I don't however like the one size fits all solutions he gives and the idea that everything is centred around dominance and submission. The alpha rolling he does could be downright dangerous in the wrong hands, and I've also never seen him try it on a bigger dog So no idea how he'd handle aggression in a dog that was too big to manhandle. All in all he's better than most televised dog trainers, but I can understand if some people don't think much of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamuzz Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 - Flooding. That Dane that was on his show that he got to walk on lino was NOT stress free and I would hate to see people copy flooding techniques on their own dog. It could easily result in bites or a very damaged relationship. He always wants the quick fix, no giving the dog any time to think and learn for itself. What does "flooding" mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooding_%28psychology%29 Eg with the Dane, instead of building up confidence with the floor, he simply forced the dog onto it and walked around on it till it started to walk. Sink or Swim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Hmmm.. Watched him with "butch" the very aggro bulldog. I just pray the average dog- owner never tries his methods yes, they work for him, because he can read the dogs, has excellent timing and reflexes ( he did get bitten this day).. I try not to watch him...but have to admire his confidence and his ability to anticipate the dog's moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I don't think the Dane was really over it. He was still panting heavily and looking stressed to me, though he didn't have much choice but to walk on it anyway. Many dogs would have just shut down and probably not made it to the TV. Im not going to get into the arguements about alpha rolling & whether his training methods are good/bad, but I did see the dane you are referring to on a subsequent show in which he referred to it (didnt see the original) & I can say that the dog showed absolutely NO signs of stress on the lino at that time (not sure exactly how long after the original episode it was). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vehs Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 My family taped an episode of it the other week for me (because I like dogs - hah!) and the 2nd case was of a SWF that was from the pound and labelled aggressive but the lady still took it home and then the dog was treated like a human baby and didn't tolerate being groomed ... among other things. He used a lot of scruff grabbing, got bitten numerous times and the dog's face looked like absolute shite because they were using huge kitchen scissors. I don't see what the issue would have been with muzzling the dog especially when the nervous and jittery owner was trying to trim it's fringe with these mammoth scissors and Ceaser was dripping blood everywhere.... I like watching the shows to see the mistakes the humans make so I can try and avoid them, because let's face it is ALWAYS handler error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Yet another Cesar thread I have one of his "Pack leader" Tshirts and I love it. I point it out to my dogs whenever I wear it and they look at me as if to say....."Huh??!!?? Whatever.....where u hiding dat frisbee?" I also have a "Daddy" mug.....Loooove Daddy! As I've mentioned before in previous threads, there are some things I agree with and others I absolutely don't. But I do admire his communication skills with the owners. He is a very charismatic person which is probably why he ended up with his own TV show. Am I a Cesar fan??? You could say...........put it this way, if he came to Australia, I would definitely go along to see him. Let's face it, who wouldn't?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Tess,instead of having a little Dig about me respecting him because as a Person he built his dream,tell you what get back to me when you have achieved something noteworthy like Cesar has. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterpaws Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I thought Tess's comment was reasonable given we are in a training forum and not a "life skills" forum You know Tony the funny thing is that I recently bought his new book "Be The Pack Leader". I was 30 pages in and had to come on here and have a look at old posts because something was ringing a bell. Lo and behold - you were regurgitating his book without acknowledging the source funny that I even tagged the pages because I thought it so interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now