Can I Have Ideas Please On How You Would Train This Trick ...

[MrsD]

Im looking for ideas on how to train a dog to pull a small toy (like a childs toy cart or pram) to me. As a bit of background Whisper is 7 months old (almost ), very food motivated & have been doing clicker training with her. She is also quite a good retriever, but most of the time, at least, likes to have the article moving before she brings it back, but isnt fussy on what she retrieves (will retrieve a ball, frisbee, lead etc). She also loves tugging, but food drive tends to over ride all of that & when I tried to click & treat for her retrieving her lead for example she did it the first time until she realised I had food & then didnt want to leave me to go & get it :D . I think she saw it as "Ohh mum threw something for me, I know that's fun but I think I will hang around here & wait for a trick command so I can get food". So she didnt work out (not surprising, it was only once!) that the retrieve was the "trick" I wanted her to perform, the retrieve was simply a distraction to her (which she ignored extremely well ).

Anyway I'd like ideas on how to train it, as I want different ideas. I know CTD trained her dog to do it, but as she said all she had to do was look at something & Moses would bring it to her & Whisper isnt like that yet! Jarrah is much more like that but I'd like to teach Whisper as I want to perform it as a part of a demo routine in which Jarrah will already have a big part & I want Whisper to be in it too .

ETA - she has learnt to target the back of my hand with her nose (command = touch) & does so very reliably & targets my hands with her paws (command = paw) but if I ask her to touch anything else she gets very confused & tries the nose/hand & hand/paw thing.

Edited January 8, 2008 by MrsD

[laffi]

Have you done any shaping training with her (still using the clicker)?

[PAX]

Mrs D, If you read through this it should help and give you some ideas. :rolleyes:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=10632

I just read all your post, I was rushing. Try breaking it down more, C/t her for going to the article, throw it, send her, go with her and reward when she gets to it. Maybe you're lumping too much for her. Have you trained her to go to a target plate or something similar?, that also might help. Try to get rewards in away from you.

Edited January 8, 2008 by PAX

[MrsD]

Laffi, what is defined as shaping? :dropjaw:

Pax, I havent actually done anything with her on this exercise yet apart from trying to get her to touch the lead in my hand or retrieve the lead if I throw it. That's why I was wondering if anyone (better clicker trainers than me ) could suggest how they would train it to see if Im doing something that may work - I won't say doing it right as there are lots of "right" ways of doing things, as you know ;) .

Here are the 2 things that have happened so far with the 2 small things I tried.

1. When I threw the lead 1st time I C&T on her picking it up & returning to me. Problem is the second time I threw it she just stood in front of me & when I went out to it with her to encourage her she just went all silly offering all sorts of behaviours & jumping up. I think the problem is partly that she sees a retrieve (or play like tug) AS the reward so she's basically saying " No thanks, I don't want that reward out there (that you've just thrown), I'd rather stay here with you & get a food reward" ;) .

2. When I try to get her to touch the lead in my hand she targets my hand, so she doesnt understand that she's to target the lead. And if I put it on the floor she ignores it (see above ;) ).

As far as I have 2 options to do the trick I want as the end result & they are to have a piece of rope on the toy which she can then pull on or get her to push it with her nose. I guess what I am really asking others ideas on on a basic level is firstly how to get her to target another object (ie not part of my body) & how to transfer that to retrieving it.

Or is retrieving a lead or similar not similar enough to pulling a cart along for her to grasp the change later on? I thought I would try with the lead first as to finish the trick I am going to have to teach Jonty to lead another dog (Whisper if I can get her to do this) along by their lead so I thought I would start with the first part.

(Am I making any sense what-so-ever? :rolleyes: :p )

Im not exactly sure what a target plate is, but I have just started teaching her to put her front feet on a phone book or small box, is that what you mean? We've only done it twice so far & she's picked it up fairly well. If it gives any indictation Dagboy was sitting next to me on the lounge last night when I was training her & his comment was "She's very clever - b*tch" - Im still trying to work out if he means her or me :o .

[Lablover]

lumping

Lumping via Bob Bailey??? Love it, are we lumpers or splitters!!!

[PAX]

Yes LL, we all lump. :rolleyes: I think number 1 example is lumping. I would of C/T the pick up and rewarded at the pick up, or even just going to the lead.

Mrs D, I would get a mouse pad or something non slip and C/T her to nose touch it, same way you have C/T her to foot target for the rear end awareness game. Help her by cheating and put food on the target and click as she gets it. I'm sure once she gets the idea you will be able to easily transfer to a lead or what ever.

You could train her to retrieve the bit of rope that will go on the toy instead of a lead (I'm thinking out loud).

Target plate is a great game as you can use it for heaps of things while training, also when she hits the plate you can throw food to her so she learns she doesn't have to come back to you to get the food/reward.

[MrsD]

Yes LL, we all lump. :rolleyes: I think number 1 example is lumping. I would of C/T the pick up and rewarded at the pick up, or even just going to the lead.

Mrs D, I would get a mouse pad or something non slip and C/T her to nose touch it, same way you have C/T her to foot target for the rear end awareness game. Help her by cheating and put food on the target and click as she gets it. I'm sure once she gets the idea you will be able to easily transfer to a lead or what ever.

You could train her to retrieve the bit of rope that will go on the toy instead of a lead (I'm thinking out loud).

Target plate is a great game as you can use it for heaps of things while training, also when she hits the plate you can throw food to her so she learns she doesn't have to come back to you to get the food/reward.

OK, I will try with the mousemat, I just did a couple of minutes of training with her & if the box (it's actually a phone book but she doesnt know that ) is within 4 feet in front of me she immediately goes to it & stands on it, further than that & she flaps around a bit so for now I will keep it close & practice more. When she stands on it I throw the food off to the side so she has to leave it & therefore has to go back to it for the next reward.

How early do you put a command to something like that or the mousmat? I have her doing it on a verbal command now, as above, Im not sure if I should keep quiet but that way I guess it's more free shaping? (Can you tell I've not done much of this stuff? )

[PAX]

For the foot targeting I didn't name it all, the dogs just knew when I stood in front of it that I needed them to stand on it, as you need to be close to get the rear end moving.

For the nose touch, use a different thing like the mouse pad, be close so you can load the target then click as she gets it, how quickly you can get distance will depend on how smart she is. Seeing she is a BC should only take a few seconds....

Forgot to say; how quick to name it. I would name it if you want as soon as it looks like she is starting to understand what she has to do.

Edited January 8, 2008 by PAX

[MrsD]

Thanx Pax .

[Kodiak]

Rubbing a treat on the lead might also work to get her focussed on the lead so you can click the attention. I have Karen Pryors click a trick kit and that is how I got my Aussie to find my keys in the house, rub food on them so she sniffed them - any interest was clicked and now if she sees the keys anywhere she goes and puts her nose on them .

[MrsD]

Rubbing a treat on the lead might also work to get her focussed on the lead so you can click the attention. I have Karen Pryors click a trick kit and that is how I got my Aussie to find my keys in the house, rub food on them so she sniffed them - any interest was clicked and now if she sees the keys anywhere she goes and puts her nose on them .

good idea a bit like Pax's suggestion of putting the treat on the mousemat, I like it! Love the keys story . Thank you!

I can only dream that Whisper is ever as clever as Jarrah, I am still astounded every day at how fast he learns things. But she is doing pretty well (I could teach Jarrah this whole trick of pulling a cart to me in less than 5 mins, but that's not the point, I want Whisper to do it )

[Arya]

Im looking for ideas on how to train a dog to pull a small toy (like a childs toy cart or pram) to me. As a bit of background Whisper is 7 months old (almost ), very food motivated & have been doing clicker training with her. She is also quite a good retriever, but most of the time, at least, likes to have the article moving before she brings it back, but isnt fussy on what she retrieves (will retrieve a ball, frisbee, lead etc). She also loves tugging, but food drive tends to over ride all of that & when I tried to click & treat for her retrieving her lead for example she did it the first time until she realised I had food & then didnt want to leave me to go & get it . I think she saw it as "Ohh mum threw something for me, I know that's fun but I think I will hang around here & wait for a trick command so I can get food". So she didnt work out (not surprising, it was only once!) that the retrieve was the "trick" I wanted her to perform, the retrieve was simply a distraction to her (which she ignored extremely well ).

Anyway I'd like ideas on how to train it, as I want different ideas. I know CTD trained her dog to do it, but as she said all she had to do was look at something & Moses would bring it to her & Whisper isnt like that yet! Jarrah is much more like that but I'd like to teach Whisper as I want to perform it as a part of a demo routine in which Jarrah will already have a big part & I want Whisper to be in it too .

ETA - she has learnt to target the back of my hand with her nose (command = touch) & does so very reliably & targets my hands with her paws (command = paw) but if I ask her to touch anything else she gets very confused & tries the nose/hand & hand/paw thing.

Mrs D, here I can help you!!!!!!!!!!!! This is one of my dog's specialty tricks in her tricks show. I would love to figure out how to put it up on YouTube but if you PM me I am happy to send you a short DVD of her little show at some point. Now to teach this trick, start with a shoe box and a piece of rope attached to the shoe box. Start in an open area of your house like living room floor. First, get her to pick the rope up in her mouth. Then mark the behaviour when she gets it correct. Once she is confidently picking it up and holding it in her mouth, with you beside her encourage her to pull it along with you. Reward incremental improvements. If she pulls for half a second and drops it, use your marker (yes and treat is mine but yours might be clicker and treat). Capture the behaviour and expand upon it. Once the dog is pulling a shoe box and string along nicely, swap to one of those little carts you can get from Big W or Kmart or wherever. Now tie the same bit of rope to the handle. Start again, right back at the very beginning with the training. Why teach with shoebox first? NO WHEELS! Wheels turning can be a hell of a distraction in even a slightly prey driven dog. Repeat the teaching which will go quickly. The deal is, the dog already has a foundation in pulling something along and I have found the behaviour is swapped quickly to other objects such as a little red wagon with wheels.

Now if you want to you can concurrently as a separate exercise, train the dog to put a toy in the wagon and then pull it along. My dog first places a soft toy in the wagon. Then on the command 'Let's go!' she picks up the string and races along pulling the wagon. Great fun and a huge crowd-pleaser.

GOOD LUCK! LET'S KNOW HOW IT GOES!

[MrsD]

Thank you Arya, that's a great help! Now I just have to teach her to pick up the rope in her mouth . I think once she gets that idea the rest will come fairly easily ;) . I would love to see a video of your girl in action doing the trick, I will send you a PM.

Don't laugh, but my idea for this trick is that Jonty is going to be sitting in the cart when it's pulled out "onstage" & then I want to get Jonty to lead Whisper back offstage again . Or perhaps Whisper drags it out, lets Jonty hop off & then Whisper pulls it back offstage again. Got to get one dog trained first before I try the second dog .

If you have any other trick suggestions for Jonty (ie cute little dog tricks) I'd love to hear them .