Re Training The Sit

[Rebanne]

Some background first :D

Fern is a 16 month old greyhound bitch who I have been showing in the conformation ring. Now she has her title I am going to try and get her in the obedience ring. I have previously trained 2 GSD's to get their CDX's and one got 2 passes in UD before bad hips got in the way. I have also titled one of the GSD's and a beagle cross in agility, before there were multiple classes. So it a while since I trained a dog for competition obedience.

I haven't been paying a lot of attention to how Fern sits, as long as she sat when I wanted her to i.e. before coming in the door, I was happy. I did note that her sits were nice and square :p what I didn't notice is she backs up into them :D So when she sits in front she ends up about 4 foot away from me, same as sitting at my side, ends up quite a way behind me. Not a good look for the ring. Fern is clicker savvy and very food motivated but only for a short period of time. I have to keep reminding myself I'm not training a shepherd now

Suggestions on ways to re teach the sit so it's her back legs moving forward, not her front legs stepping back, would be greatly appreciated. BTW having Fern in a corner does stress her slightly.

[Rom]

My girl used to do the rock back sit too. There are a few things that I did to help her tidy this up:

For the front, I did short recalls with her on lead, but I passed the lead between my legs so that as she come in I could hold her front end close to me and she had to scoot her rear end under to sit. I found that with the lead btn my legs and being held behind my back I could limit unecessary hand movements/signals that may have been confusing her and basically kept my hands right out of her way of getting in nice and close.

The other criteria I train for in the front is that the dog has to be looking up at my face in order to earn the reward...so the minute her butt hits the ground and she is looking at me I mark and drop the reward from my mouth (I don't spit cuz my aim is shocking!). I found with my dog that if she was in nice and close and held there and looking up at me then it was almost a natural that her butt scooted in underneath rather than her rocking back into the sit.....if that makes sense?

ETA: Picture

Edited January 6, 2008 by Rom

[Rebanne]

Thanks for the reply Rom. I was trying to avoid putting Fern on lead but I will give this a go. When I say she backs up she does more than move her front legs backwards, she literally backs into a sit, stepping back several times as her bum gets lower. The more excited she is, as in will the back door open and let me in, the more she goes backwards.

[sidoney]

My Shaula did a rock back sit. It was some years ago but I think that I retrained by luring her with some outstanding food, not over and back, but holding the food in a way that she didn't want to move her nose away from it as the butt went down. Sort of just up. Successive approximations of course.

The rock back sit and the tuck sit, as you would know, are two different behaviours so you would want to put a different cue on the tuck sit.

Had another thought. You might also be able to do it by teaching her to target a flattish thing with her front feet and then obtaining a tuck sit behaviour from that, if she understands to keep her feet on the target. Then fade the target.

Edited January 7, 2008 by sidoney

[Rom]

Good point about the target Sidoney, it reminded me of something else I did. I also had my girl touch my stomache with her nose before looking at me.

[Lablover]

I haven't been paying a lot of attention to how Fern sits, as long as she sat when I wanted her to i.e. before coming in the door, I was happy. I did note that her sits were nice and square what I didn't notice is she backs up into them :rolleyes: So when she sits in front she ends up about 4 foot away from me, same as sitting at my side, ends up quite a way behind me. Not a good look for the ring.

Interesting she backs into her sits ......naturally. Is this always the case when she sits about the house and yard etc?

Do you think she has an injury which makes it difficult for her? I only ask this, as one of my older labs has intermittent back pain due to an old injury, and the first sign of pain is an uneven sit.

[Rebanne]

Thanks Sidoney, I was thinking along those lines but haven't tried it yet.

Lablover, Fern seems to always back up. The only times I have really wanted her to sit up to now have been cause of great excitement, coming inside, going out for a walk, getting into the car etc. It's almost as if she is so excited she can't quite get her bum into gear. But I have been watching her sit for her meals and while it is a rock back sit she doesn't step back. I think it is because the quicker she sits the quicker she eats. So maybe I need to work on very quick sits and just ignore the back up ones. Hmm, thinking, thinking........

she does she a chiropractor occassionally and is usually out in the front end, right in the area she uses to body slam my other dog! He is out in the area's he get slammed in.