Please Tell Me This Is Just A Passing Phase !

[Riley'n'Mia]

Sorry if this is long.............

My male GSD turned 6 mnths on 26 Dec 07 and up until then was quite well behaved for a puppy, he was easy to toilet train, topped the class in puppy school and has quickly learned sit, stay, come, drop, on your bed, etcetera. He sleeps in the loungeroom at night and has never chewed anything, gotten on the lounge or toileted inside since being toilet trained. His breeder gave me a folder with a lot of info on GSD and what to expect hubby and I call it the "Riley instruction manuel" it mentions in there about the 5 critical periods stating that during the 5th period your puppy will possibly go through either a fear period or try to assert dominance over the family members this stage is between 3 and 4 mnths, my dog never went through this period he remained stable in his behaviour up until now.

Over the course of the past 10 days or so Riley has been becoming increasingly less responsive to simple commands such as sit, stay and come, he pulls like a train on the lead (I just bought him a halti so he sits down and refuses to walk at all with it on), is very dominant over my 5 mnth old female JRT (he has always been really good with her before now) and he has started humping things and ejaculating very frequently he even straddled the lounge a few days ago ! As he is a larger breed and therefore slow to grow and mature the plan was to desex him when he's at least 12 months old (as advised by several breeders and my vet) however my husband who loves this dog more than he loves me (well almost) said yesterday if he keeps up this attitude and continues his ignorant behaviour he's getting the chop next mnth or he just might kill him. Yesterday whilst I was working hubby took Riley for a walk on the 800 acre horse property I work on and he was swimming in the river as he's done 100 times before ever since he was 9 weeks old and he just randomly ran off and straight into a paddock with a horse in it (about 350 metres from the river and over a hill) and started chasing the horse, he was almost kicked in the head as my husband who was chasing him calling in terror couldn't catch him before he reached the horse. He's been around horses since he was 8 weeks and never taken any notice of them before and never wanders off when off the lead until now (he won't be having off leash walks anymore and only ever has in the safety of my work) ! He is also strutting around the backyard barking at nothing a fair bit and won't listen when told to be quite he wasn't much of a barker before.

There are NO obedience classes in my area the closest is 2 hours drive so I have just ordered some training DVD's off the net in the hope that I can train him myself and I will also be getting some private obedience classes at the local vets with him.

Does anyone have any advice is this just a stage and if so how long should it last ? For a larger slow maturing breed what are the pos and neg to desexing before 12 mnths ?

[Ellis]

I know with Lexi (Amstaff) she was a little angel till about 6mths then she started chewing things. I wonder if it is like a rebellious teenage stage?

Edited January 5, 2008 by Ellis

[BrunoBella]

This is just a passing phase. I remember it well.

You need to increase the rules to get past this stage. Make sure you set some clear boundaries and stick to them.

With the lead pulling, I would reduce the walk time, eg, go straight home if he doesn't stop pulling. This will show him it is unacceptable. I also walk off by myself if I ever have to take the dogs home cause they were misbehaving.

When he's misbehaving in the house - dominating and humping - I would throw him out for half an hour or so and let him back in. This works very well for mine.

With the chasing horses, I would restrict his movement until he grows out of this phase.

Mr Bruno is now a lovely, well behaved boy again now .

Good luck

BellasPerson

eta - the principle I follow is to make it easier for dogs to behave correctly by reducing their ability to behave incorrectly and to set myself up to always win.

Edited January 6, 2008 by BellasPerson

[DeltaCharlie]

He has become a teenager Some dogs go through it worse than others (like ppl I guess) but they all go through it.

When Delta started formal obedience at 4 months she skipped the first 3 classes as she already knew what to do. By 6 months she was worse than the beginner dogs. She knew what to do, but she was starting to realise that there was more to the world than being glued to me. At about 8 months I lost the ability to call her if a dirt bike went past. She stills tears after them and is impossible to catch but at least her recall is reliable again so I can call her to me if I hear one coming. She is 13months and has just started to settle down again and do what she is told. Some dogs settle down sooner than this, others later, depends on the dog.

You just have to ride it out. Keep working on the training and making it clear what you want and that you wont put up with nonsense. I found doing some backyard agility worked well with Delta at that age as it was something fun for her to do with mum. If she was good doing obedience for 10 mins she got to do some agility which worked better than treats. No jumping at this age, just tunnels, walking along planks of wood, etc. If he likes fetch you could do that instead (Delta isn't really a playing dog... she loves agility more than anything though).

As for the everyday behaviours. I know of people who give dogs their own pillow to hump. Ive always had mine desexed by 6 months so I don't know how well it works. Pulling on the lead means no walkies. Many times I have made it as far as the letterbox before turning around and going back. You can try working on it in the backyard first. With the horse you might need to have him on a long lead when you are near horses. That way he cant chase them and he is close enough to give him rewards for not chasing them.

I dont know of anyone who has had problems with desexing big dogs earlier than 12months. All the GSDs I know were done at 6 months and had no growing issues.

Edited January 6, 2008 by DeltaCharlie

[Riley'n'Mia]

Thanks for the replies so far I am sure he'll grow out of it I'm just worried because like most of us hubby and I want to have children one day and I want him to be trained properly before then and as there isn't anywhere near my home to teach me and him and I haven't had a big dog like him before I don't want to stuff him up !

[Dogsfevr]

Personally i would getting him desexed asap.The point of desexing early is to to minimize the male hormones.

i also feel sometimes when pups are overtrained young they will aslo push the boundries latter.

[The Spotted Devil]

It's a very trying stage isn't it!!!! My pup was very full on from the beginning but had an "attack of the teenagers" at 9 months (i.e. what does "come" mean again? ) and again at 12 months. The trick is to be very, very consistent and do not give in. Ever! :p Zig is now nearly 14 months and is an absolute delight, although still very intense.

Please be very careful with your GSD and don't over exercise him (i.e. running, jumping, fetch games) in the hope of tiring him out and making him manageable - over exercise (along with genetics and diet) is a risk factor for hip dysplasia. I can highly recommend you try something like clicker training - I use it as part of Zig's training but have been doing quite a bit the last few days as I have an injury that is preventing me from doing as much with him as I'd like. I also use toys as part of the training - playing hide and seek with them or asking for a behaviour (e.g. sit, drop) before a gentle retrieve.

With the humping, my pup tried this one on from when he was very, very young! Perhaps some of it stems from over-excitement but I just won't tolerate it - I tried a number of approaches (ignore, tell him to "leave", isolate, remove item etc) but a quick jet of water from a spray was the best and the quickest solution. Oh, and my lad is entire as I show him.

The long line, as already suggested, is brilliant - I purchased a 10m and 15m from eBay and they come in handy. I combine that with a big reward for coming back to me....food or a toy/tug game. You have to remember that chasing the horse is probably a whole lot more rewarding than coming back to you. I take Ziggy to the beach regularly and there are a lot of distractions with other dogs and lovely smells. His recall is excellent now, however, as he knows that if he turns smartly and races back when I call he *might* get a cuddle or a healthy dog biscuit or a cheezy treat or, delight of delights, steamed chicken Keep the little rascals guessing :p Following his recall (practiced 6-8 times on every free run) he gets released to go and play again. If he suddenly goes "deaf" (not for ages now), I quietly approach and put him on lead and do some obedience work on the beach......then he is let free and we practice the recall again. Just noticed this from your post:

...as my husband who was chasing him calling in terror...

I know it would have been hard for your husband but what he did was completely counter-productive and it won't help!!!! The best (but sometimes most difficult) thing to do is turn and run in the opposite direction and call puppy in an excited, welcoming voice. But don't let it get to that.....get a long line and do some serious training with him. Some people also train their dogs to recall to a whistle to remove the emotion from their voice!

Barking - Ziggy has never been much of a barker but I always praise him when he does bark, then call him straight to me and ask him to "steady". Lots of praise for being calm.

Desexing - dogs that are desexed before they stop growing may grow very slightly taller than their counterparts (because the sex hormones stimulate the closure of the growth plates). This may be made more obvious by slightly less muscle mass associated with low testosterone levels. I imagine this is what your breeder was getting at. Desexing may be a good option for your boy, but it won't be a quick "fix" and you'll still have to deal with the teenager for a bit longer.

Good luck

[KitKat]

Hehehehehe...he is at that age I know...i have two of them! You need to make sure he knows you are boss and probably do things to remind him more often for a while :p

As to desexing before 12 months of age - i have one GSD (Bronx) who was desexed at 6 months and the other (Sabre) at 16months (only that late due to one ball refusing to show - i wanted to gice it a chance ) . And as to pro's and cons...i just wish i had done the 2nd GSD as early. No difference in behaviour before and after desexing - at least not in regards to personality. The GSD done at 6 months was already a calm, well behaved dog with not too many bad habits - desexing didn't change that...just made the pee less smelly! The Pup that was done at the older age was still a brat, cheeky and naughty once snipped - and thank goodness made his pee un-stinky...lol.

Re size etc with desexing...well...both my dogs are 45kg's lean weight, both are a solid build, Bronx is a bit taller...but he was always going to be - eg at 8weeks of age he was 11kg...as opposed to Sabre who was 7kg's at the same age. Bronx has more bulk and gives the illusion of being 'huge' as people will often remark...lol. I don't think desexing age had much to do with that look. People will often say if you desex before 12 months they will be leggy and rangy...Bronx is neither - actually Sabre gives you the idea of that more then Bronx and he had his balls for longer!

[Danois]

Look out there is a teenager in the house!

When I had trouble with pulling on the lead I was told (and followed) that as soon as Angus pulled, I turned around (turning into him) and started walking back to where we had come from, once he settled and was walking at heel then he would be praised with good heel etc and then turned around (away from him) and start heading to where we had been going. If he did it again, we repeated it etc etc. He soon learnt that he was not going to get to the park if he continued to pull and stopped it.

Go back to the training basics for the sit, come etc

[Swizzlestick]

Look out there is a teenager in the house!

When I had trouble with pulling on the lead I was told (and followed) that as soon as Angus pulled, I turned around (turning into him) and started walking back to where we had come from, once he settled and was walking at heel then he would be praised with good heel etc and then turned around (away from him) and start heading to where we had been going. If he did it again, we repeated it etc etc. He soon learnt that he was not going to get to the park if he continued to pull and stopped it.

Go back to the training basics for the sit, come etc

That's also the way I've been told to do it. Rather than call off the walk altogether.

[Nevafollo]

I know with Lexi (Amstaff) she was a little angel till about 6mths then she started chewing things. I wonder if it is like a rebellious teenage stage?

thats when levi started to chew things aswell!!!!its like he discovered he teeth for the first time!!!

[Tibbiemax71]

I had Elka and Zana desexed at 6 months and had no growth problems, I am no expert though, just going by what I have experienced with my own dogs.

Our little Tibbie, Tashi is a bit of a humper at times, he was quite enjoying the company of a foster dog we had here for a few weeks (she left yesterday) if she was laying down he would mount her and start humping, I just yelled "AH" at him and clapped my hands and after a while I just had to yell the "AH" and he moved away from her quick smart, Tashi is all ready desexed, he was done at 9 weeks!!

With the barking at nothing, Tashi (he is a naughty little boy sometimes ) went through this stage a bit to, I was told a technique by another person on DOL who owns Tibbies which has worked well for Tashi so you could try it with Riley to, when he is outside barking, Get a couple of pans that make a hell of a noise when banged together. Watch from inside the house (where the dog can't see you), as soon as there's a bark, give one hell of a bang with the pans. Only one. Silence, no bang. As soon as a bark starts again, another hell of a bang. Do this consistently for a while.

The trick is to get the dog to associate the noise of its barking with setting off a scarey loud nasty noise.

So it's less inclined to bark.

With the horse chasing, I had a Male Shepherd who I got when he was 9 months old, he used to like chasing the cows where he lived before I got him, I took him to see my horse and of course he wanted to chase. First I established a good recall at home, in the park, wherever, I took him again to see the horse on a lung rein with a check chain, if he tried to chase the horse I checked him and called him back, praised when he came back, I then started to let him off lead and if he tried to chase I threw a check chain near him and yelled "AH" my horse is not worried about dogs at all though and isn't at all worried about dogs running into his back legs or chasing him, so wouldn't suggest doing this with a horse that is easily startled!

ETA - I typed this up this morning, then my visitors came for my sons birthday party, I just posted it now, so if I have repeated anything someone else suggested, Sorry!

Edited January 6, 2008 by shepmax71

[Erny]

This is just a passing phase. I remember it well.

A passing phase? That depends on whether he recognises you mean the boundaries and guidelines you've set him. It is a time of 'learning' for dogs - in part it could be a reflection on what relationship you've established up until now. Or it could be him checking to see if you will assert those boundaries. Could also be the 'second teething' period, - kind of as if his mature teeth are 'settling in' .... some dogs do go through another chewing phase at that point. Either way, it is still about 'learning' even if there is an underlying cause and if unchecked the behaviour can become habitual. Do nothing and the phase will not necessarily 'pass'.

[Riley'n'Mia]

Please be very careful with your GSD and don't over exercise him (i.e. running, jumping, fetch games) in the hope of tiring him out and making him manageable - over exercise (along with genetics and diet) is a risk factor for hip dysplasia. I can highly recommend you try something like clicker training - I use it as part of Zig's training but have been doing quite a bit the last few days as I have an injury that is preventing me from doing as much with him as I'd like. I also use toys as part of the training - playing hide and seek with them or asking for a behaviour (e.g. sit, drop) before a gentle retrieve.

With the humping, my pup tried this one on from when he was very, very young! Perhaps some of it stems from over-excitement but I just won't tolerate it - I tried a number of approaches (ignore, tell him to "leave", isolate, remove item etc) but a quick jet of water from a spray was the best and the quickest solution. Oh, and my lad is entire as I show him.

Thank you for your reply I agree using a long lead/lunge lead is a good suggestion will def give it a go.

I post in the GSD thread most of the time and everyone in there is really good at helping first time GSD owners such as myself with advice so I was taught from the day I picked Riley up not to do too much exercise with him he usually has a 20 or 30 min outing daily which includes a swim in the dam or lake and some light games such as fetching the stick or ball from the water and bringing it back to me (after doing a bit of training on the lead). My vet has also stressed the importance of not over exerting him until he's finished growing.

Riley did try humping the first night we got him and he was quickly told off for it, he's tried it two or three more times all not long after his arrival with us around 9 or 10 weeks old but hasn't dared do it to myself or my husband since.

[Riley'n'Mia]

This is just a passing phase. I remember it well.

A passing phase? That depends on whether he recognises you mean the boundaries and guidelines you've set him. It is a time of 'learning' for dogs - in part it could be a reflection on what relationship you've established up until now. Or it could be him checking to see if you will assert those boundaries. Could also be the 'second teething' period, - kind of as if his mature teeth are 'settling in' .... some dogs do go through another chewing phase at that point. Either way, it is still about 'learning' even if there is an underlying cause and if unchecked the behaviour can become habitual. Do nothing and the phase will not necessarily 'pass'.

Hi Erny

We've always tried to be assertive yet fair with Riley from day 1 at 8 weeks of age knowing how big and strong he's going to be my husband and I discussed in great length before getting him that he'd need lots of training as it would be a disaster if a fully grown adult of his size was left to do as he pleased. I am hoping we've done the correct things so far and he's just as you suggest "checking to see if you will assert those boundaries" or even better going through a "second teething period".

We def don't intend to do nothing we hope to have him as a friendly, well mannered, loving family member for the rest of his life, he's actually already started to behave a little better today although I think he is sulking because he keeps getting told to do the opposite to everything he's doing at the moment !

[Tilly]

Lol ... if you are lucky it is a passing phase . My 5 year old still occassionally has these moments.

He went through the totally nutty stage but eventually got through it by us being very firm and consistant ... even though I wanted to ring his neck. I think he only survived because he was so cute :D

[Riley'n'Mia]

Tashi (he is a naughty little boy sometimes )

With the horse chasing, I had a Male Shepherd who I got when he was 9 months old, he used to like chasing the cows where he lived before I got him, I took him to see my horse and of course he wanted to chase. First I established a good recall at home, in the park, wherever, I took him again to see the horse on a lung rein with a check chain, if he tried to chase the horse I checked him and called him back, praised when he came back, I then started to let him off lead and if he tried to chase I threw a check chain near him and yelled "AH" my horse is not worried about dogs at all though and isn't at all worried about dogs running into his back legs or chasing him, so wouldn't suggest doing this with a horse that is easily startled!

Tashi might be naughty sometimes but boy is he cute :p

Maybe I should send Riley to you to learn horse manners :D all the horses at my work are too valuable to risk practicing with and my horse is more possessive than a GSD of me and would trample Riley if he went near me in the presence of my horse :D wish I'd spent as much time teaching my horse manners as I do trying to teach Riley.

[Tibbiemax71]

Tashi (he is a naughty little boy sometimes )

With the horse chasing, I had a Male Shepherd who I got when he was 9 months old, he used to like chasing the cows where he lived before I got him, I took him to see my horse and of course he wanted to chase. First I established a good recall at home, in the park, wherever, I took him again to see the horse on a lung rein with a check chain, if he tried to chase the horse I checked him and called him back, praised when he came back, I then started to let him off lead and if he tried to chase I threw a check chain near him and yelled "AH" my horse is not worried about dogs at all though and isn't at all worried about dogs running into his back legs or chasing him, so wouldn't suggest doing this with a horse that is easily startled!

Tashi might be naughty sometimes but boy is he cute

Maybe I should send Riley to you to learn horse manners :D all the horses at my work are too valuable to risk practicing with and my horse is more possessive than a GSD of me and would trample Riley if he went near me in the presence of my horse :p wish I'd spent as much time teaching my horse manners as I do trying to teach Riley.

Yes he is cute all right :D

My horse was practically born with dogs around him, I have a pic of him as a few hours old sniffing noses with my first GSD, when I broke him in my Shepherd used to come with me on his first rides, he was always happier if my dog was there, I used to take the dogs with me years ago when I went riding in the bush and they would run behind playing and slam into his back legs, even that didn't worry him, I think sometimes my horse thinks he is a dog :p

[Zhara]

Just going on the picture you posted, I would suggest you don't recharge his battery as often, if at all until he is about 5 years old!

My 12 year old son's name is Riley, and the young girl who recently moved in next door with twin girls has called them, Riley and Mia! :D

Your boy's behaviour is not what we have ever experienced with our males, do know that some bloodlines have different traits, if he is very dominant then possibly has come from his breeding. I would make sure you are firm with him, if he does something undesirable, banish him to an area where he is on his own, and comes back out when he is quiet and sensible. When removing him, stay calm, don't scream and yell at him, don't speak to him. Just remove him! When he is quiet and behaved, quietly let him out without a fuss and give him a treat, making him sit for it, and then go about as normal. (When giving him a treat, keep it closed into your fist, hand kept low and against your body. He can sniff and lick your closed hand if he is sitting, then you slowly open your hand so he can gently take the treat. This will stop him from trying to snatch it from you or becoming excited and boisterous, which would excite him lead to him going into a humping frenzy. Keep it calm, even if playing with him...Calm is the key!

Let me know who mum and dad is.

Good luck

Zhara

[Riley'n'Mia]

Just going on the picture you posted, I would suggest you don't recharge his battery as often, if at all until he is about 5 years old!

My 12 year old son's name is Riley, and the young girl who recently moved in next door with twin girls has called them, Riley and Mia! :D

Your boy's behaviour is not what we have ever experienced with our males, do know that some bloodlines have different traits, if he is very dominant then possibly has come from his breeding. I would make sure you are firm with him, if he does something undesirable, banish him to an area where he is on his own, and comes back out when he is quiet and sensible. When removing him, stay calm, don't scream and yell at him, don't speak to him. Just remove him! When he is quiet and behaved, quietly let him out without a fuss and give him a treat, making him sit for it, and then go about as normal. (When giving him a treat, keep it closed into your fist, hand kept low and against your body. He can sniff and lick your closed hand if he is sitting, then you slowly open your hand so he can gently take the treat. This will stop him from trying to snatch it from you or becoming excited and boisterous, which would excite him lead to him going into a humping frenzy. Keep it calm, even if playing with him...Calm is the key!

Let me know who mum and dad is.

Good luck

Zhara

I have taken away the charger the day I took the pic actually so unfortunately I can't blame that

How weird is that your neighbour called her twins Riley and Mia I hope they are better behaved than my Riley and Mia ! I really like the name Riley and kind of wish I'd saved it in the event I have a baby boy one day.........

Riley's parents are http://www.sundaneka.com.au/Frontpage.html under the litter page he's was out of litter "K" he was the quietest out of the males in the litter and we wanted a male the other two were biting my hands really hard and running around like mad but he just sat on my lap licking my arm and snuggling into me BOY DID HE SEE ME COMING .........