Pulling On The Leash!

[dee lee]

Ridgy girl, I'm so glad i STARTED this thread!!

Its been amazing to get such great advice, try it and see what has worked for me. There have been so many aproaches that i could never have thought of myself. Glad i didnt give up!!

Day 5 and still getting good results, not giving up the check chain yet though, we are some ways before attentiveness is second nature, but at least walking is no longer a pain in the arse and arm! I'm pretty confident the new walking style- attentive and next to me- is here to stay as long as i stay consistent.

Im finding flow-on improvements in other areas too- she now listens to me when I say "No" to savagely barking at cats or some other dogs!! Yay for new found respect!!

[Staranais]

I'd call myself a staffy person. About 4 years ago, I adopted a 5 year old staffy who pulled like a train. Going to obedience school unfortunately didn't help us.

The most successful thing I tried was a pinch collar, along with the method described in the 3rd Steven R Lindsay book. Although I've only skimmed this thread, I think this method is similar to what MarkS is describing.

If I ever adopt another adult dog with a severe pulling problem, I would happily consider using this tool and this method again (edited to add: after trying a flat collar, and putting the dog on a leadership-enhancing programme like TOT or NILIF, obviously).

Incidentally, we never use our pinch anymore (I don't even know where it is right now) since my dog now no longer pulls.

Just my 2 cents, since someone mentioned staffy people.

Edited February 2, 2008 by Amhailte

[Staranais]

Having bad day, bloody dog has "deplanted" 2 of my prized gardenia bushes, fury does not come close to how i feel when i look at her at the moment...

DeeLee, today I went into my vegetable garden to find that my staffy boy had carefully picked and eaten every single ripe strawberry in the patch (he quite considerately left me all the unripe ones).

I guess it's just all part of the fun of living with a staffy.

[tarope]

Myszka,

The reason you didn't learn anything at Rottie training is because you wouldn't listen to the instructor, when you were told to control your dog.

Has nothing to do with you having a Dobe, don't knock Rottie training when it was your fault. I wonder if you would be saying the same thing if the Dobermann club had obedience training ?

[dee lee]

Well at long last i can see the light at the end of the tunnel! And i feel completely confident ive got the problem licked.

She doesnt walk on a loose lead yet but she is not pulling anymore and its not hard to keep her at my side now- before i was worried i'd turn into popeye!

Basically i keep her on a very short leash with the check chain and she gets a little tug on it if I feel she is about to push ahead. If she persists we stop and she is made to sit, drop and stay by my side until she looks at me (kinda a mini TOT) THEN we proceed. The distance travelled without this routine depends on the distractions around, but she has improved out of sight and i no longer get frustrated. Not completely there but i expect eventually it will become second nature and i can dispense with the check chain. YAY!!!!

I must say too, she has become MUCH better behaved in general- presumably since there is no question now that i mean business- and i have even been complemented on what a well trained dog she is!! Wow! AND I can even get her to stop snarling at other dogs now!

Next step- offlead.... (oh, and fetch..)

Thank you all for your help, as usual DOL saves the day!! :D

Now can someone turn the rain off??

Edited February 4, 2008 by deelee2

[BrunoBella]

Fantastic news deelee :D . Isn't it great when people compliment you on your well behaved dog

And it does indeed improve your entire relationship with your dog. What an you have now.

I'm waiting for the fantastic recall and fetch updates next

eta---- better change the title to no longer pulling on the lead ------------

Edited February 4, 2008 by BellasPerson

[dee lee]

I Know!! I have tried but i can t seem to remember how to change the title!!

Thanks, BP, Still lots of work to go yet but hey she is only just one and considering how tricky she has been Im sure if i continue to put in the hard yrds she will indeed become an angel!. She is my first dog as an adult (waited a long time- 38th bday next week, gulp!) Whew what a learning curve.

Will order a training line this week, then watch out!!

[Erny]

I Know!! I have tried but i can t seem to remember how to change the title!!

Go to your first post. Click on "full edit". You'll be able to alter Title and Sub-title then. Then click on "complete edit".

Edited February 4, 2008 by Erny

[dee lee]

Thanks Erny!

[BrunoBella]

Thanks Erny!

You did it! Now everyone will know the topic has changed and Erny will be happy about the filing

Edited February 4, 2008 by BellasPerson

[Erny]

Thanks Erny!

You did it! Now everyone will know the topic has changed and Erny will be happy about the filing

;) ..... You read Bruno's thread! :D

[kateykateykatey]

This is what i do when taking willow for a walk.

She is getting a little better, but can still be a pain. OH still prefers to use the gentle leader, as she doesn't always have the time when walking to worry about correction and stuff, but i do, so i am training her with a normal collar still. But like i said, shes improving.

We put the lead on her, and wait till she calms down before even leaving the lounge room. When we get to the front door, she already knows to sit and wait, hehe. I also make her wait a minute or two in the front yard before we set off. She's still a little excited once we start, so what i tried to do, was pick up my pace a little to start with. Which she seems to enjoy and love :rolleyes: She doesnt pull at ALL when i am walking faster, but of course i am unfit atm, and cant keep it up for the whole walk!

And about halfway through our walk, we go through a park, so i run like hell through it, and she runs next to me, thinking its a great game!!!

She definately seems happier with the times i can go faster.

I am looking forward to obedience classes, ONCE i can find a good group to join up nearish me (north eastern adelaide). I swear its more worrying then finding a school for the OHs son :x

Oh! I just read this. Not sure if anyone has replied yet, either. Canine Interaction in Croydon Park are excellent, and Megan's just started more times because there's been a really high demand for classes (she's that good). It's not quite North Eastern Adelaide, but I live NE of the city and it only takes me 20 mins max to get there. Well worth it.

Her website is Canine Interaction

[RealityBites]

Tarope, perhaps you should have read the whole thread first.reading the whole thread informs you of the total picture.

DeeLee, has been offered some very good and relevant advice from Mark S and Erny.I would never recommend a headcollar to anybody unless it was to go on their Horse.Headcollars on dogs mask problems and certainly do not deal with the actual cause/s.

As far as the Breed Club scenario goes,I have to strongly disagree!!!Dogs are dogs first,then breed second.Because all dogs are dogs they share the basis of a common psychology.

Teaching a Dog to walk on a loose lead whether a Heeler,Kelpie or AB is the same.Horse are just the same.I do not when teaching a Quarter Horse to lead, go about it differently to teaching a Paint Horse to lead,because of a common psychology Tony

Why do we use head collars on horses and not on dogs? Is it because we would have absolutely no control over a horse if we just had a lead around it's neck?? I do not understand why people are so aversive to head halters. Especially if you have a large breed dog that PULLS (Yep in capitals! LOL) I have prong collars, and have been told and shown how to use them correctly, neither of my dogs has ever had a large correction in one, and yet both run if they see me coming with it, and I have to chase them to catch them to put it on! So I will no longer use them and look for alternatives that the DOG is happy with. And if they stop pulling, I am happy. I have never heard about horses getting neck strain or other injuries from being led by head halters, and I am a vet nurse!

And I know I got slightly off topic there, mind must be rambling in my old age, guess what I was trying to say is, there is NO ONE METHOD that works with every dog. Keep trying, try a few different things, and use the method that suits both your self and your dog :-)

[Erny]

Why do we use head collars on horses and not on dogs? ... I have never heard about horses getting neck strain or other injuries from being led by head halters, and I am a vet nurse!

Comparing a horse to a dog (or vice versa) is IMO one of the worst mistakes - both by the manufacturing companies of the various brand head-collars, and then by those who believe in what is written in that respect without question.

A horse's anatomy is different to a dog's, for starters. Different shape and larger neck. Longer head. Consider also the angle of a dog lead to owner's hand compared to the angle of a horse lead to owner's hand. Consider also the angle of the horse's head (in relationship to its neck) compared with that of a dog's. Imagine each individual animal in the same scenario ..... lunging forward and connecting suddenly with the end of the lead. You can try it on yourself (by simply grabbing your head with your hands as if they were some form of head restraint) ..... but I'd warn you to be very very careful when you try the 'dog scenario'. It would be an upward and backward action. Do it slowly - you'll still be able to get the feel of how easy damage to the dog's neck can occur. The halters for dogs are designed to fit differently as well. Loose on a horse. Not so for the dog. And the noseband on a dog is very close to the dog's eyes - even a well fitted head collar can and often does angle upwards against the dog's eye-socket when restraint it made against the resisting dog. Not so with a horse, where the nose band is way below the eye area. Some dogs 'shut-down' (and I mean emotionally .... to a point where 'learning' is not possible) when a head collar is fitted on. I have never seen this occur when a halter has been fitted to a horse - regardless of whether it has been conditioned to the halter or not.

You might not have come across a horse with a neck strain or injury from a halter. But that's irrelevant. The question, here, given that you're questioning "why not a dog?" should be "what evidence of injury from a head collar on a dog". I can come up with a number ...... and I'm NOT a vet nurse!

And I know I got slightly off topic there, mind must be rambling in my old age, guess what I was trying to say is, there is NO ONE METHOD that works with every dog. Keep trying, try a few different things, and use the method that suits both your self and your dog :-)

I agree with this .... but as with anything, consider the potential dangers to the animal and be aware of them. Know HOW and WHY.

RB ..... I have seen dogs who run away from their leads and flat collars too. Also, veering away from effective training tools isn't ALWAYS a sign of 'fear' or 'grave dislike as a result of the feel' of the tool ..... It can be (not saying in your case) a matter of the dog avoiding being put in a position where heirarchy is not as IT perceives it should be.

Edited February 13, 2008 by Erny

[haven]

Head halters for dogs are not the same as head halters for horses. Head halters for horses are intended for restraint purposes only whereas head halters for dogs are designed to put pressure on the poll and across the nose. A better comparison would be between a dog head collar and what is known as a war bridle for a horse, but as Erny said horses are not dogs and what works for one may not be appropriate for another. Comparing dogs and horses is about as useful as comparing dogs and humans in many respects.

[MonElite]

My dgos run TO ME when they hear any lead/collar being picked up.

Collars in the house mean fun, even the prong collar means fun.

Id never chase my dog to put the any collar on - they dont want to go and have fun - thats their choice and fine by me

As to trying different things/methods/equipement - I fully agree RB. Do what works for your dog

[BrunoBella]

My dgos run TO ME when they hear any lead/collar being picked up.

Collars in the house mean fun, even the prong collar means fun.

Id never chase my dog to put the any collar on - they dont want to go and have fun - thats their choice and fine by me

As to trying different things/methods/equipement - I fully agree RB. Do what works for your dog

I used to walk bella on a head halter and an infin8. She hated them both with a passion and would do everything to get out of putting them on and trying to get them off again. And then there was the permanent scar across her nose . She also used to run to the end of the lead and snap her neck with a sickening sound . In the 18 months I used this, she never got any better at walking.

I now use a prong collar and bella runs up to me to get her collar put on and never tries to take it off on our walk. She also very quickly stopped pulling altogether.

[kateykateykatey]

See, the infin8 collar has got to be one of the best things I've bought.. and I guess this demonstrates how different things work for different people.

We needed something for Scrimp (who is dog reactive) that was a bridge between a regular collar (he's too strong for me if he lunges at another dog) and a head collar, which although offers better "control" wrt the lunging also lead to head thrashing and wailing.

*LOTS* of work on our behalf and a consult with a private trainer, as well as dog school and a good leadership program mean that Scrimp is getting much better at dealing with his dog reactivity. The infin8 collar means I can walk him with greater confidence, which makes all the difference when we encounter another dog (confident leader = confident dog).

[dee lee]

BP, your example is one reason why i veered away from head halters- With a check chain the correction does no damage if done properly but, from anecdotal evidence here, even if you know how to use a head halter properly the dog can lunge and then the damage is done. My dog is particularly easily distracted by certain things when walking and I am positive she would be a prime candidate for the "neck snap".

As for being afraid of the checkchain- Evie used to avert her head from it when i went to put it on, but since applying MarkS's prewalk calming attitude she is keen as mustard to put anything on as long as she gets to go for a walk!!

But... I am awaiting arrival of my new training collar from blackdog, trying to ease off the checkchain since she doesnt need it AS much (sick of people's comments of how cruel I am too). Looking forward to it.

[Lablover]

Deelee,

I apologise and should read the whole thread, but apart from leash pulling, is your dog obedient generally with other commands? I have found if one criteria is poor......everything is not perfect.