Two Questions

[leopuppy04]

Ok - these two questions are totally unrelated, but couldn't be bothered starting 2 threads .

1. I've decided it's time for me to pull out the big guns and start thinking about training for UD as I am aware this will take some time! The team is a completely green dog and handler (ie: me!) as we have never gone through this class/ trained for this class before. I want to know a) for any tips on how to train each exercise, b) any links that might get me started on teaching this the right way, particularly scent work and c) what NOT to teach that might muck up his Open work. So basically anything would be most helpful as I have no idea where to start!

2. This second question is more of a general one. I've been thinking lately of what razz up games (or any games really, but mainly razz up) people play with their dogs as I'm always looking for new ideas. These are games with just you and the dog - no food, no toys, just you, dog and your voice/hands. I find this is where I'm lacking at times as I sometimes find it hard to 'razz' my dogs up (who are sooo easily razzed by other people...) yet, it is a great tool to have in terms of using it in training. I'd love to hear some ideas!

Looking forward to the responses!

[Seita]

1. Ok I am training for UD at the moment too and have also never gone through the class. There was a thread started a few weeks ago about teaching the scent discrimination which I'm using and it's going quite well... I'd definitely recommend using a similar sort of program to teach this. Also, the dogscouts website has a lot of games that you can teach which really help with UD training. That's about all the advice or tips I have for UD!

2. As for razzing up my dog... well I am blessed to have a super high drive dog who really just needs a sidewards glance to get her excited but when I really want some energy from her I get down low to her level and speak to her in a deeper tone but still sort of excited (does that make sense?). My girl also responds well to being rubbed on the sides while I'm doing this! I probably look completely nuts crouching down in front of my dog, growling at her and playing this silly game of touching her sides - she twists to follow my hand and then I touch the other side and she twists back the other way again! Also running around with her gets her stirred up, just in a small area with somewhat erratic movements. My dog also lives to work, so training her really easy little tricks and then praising her excitedly gets her pretty worked up... so much that I often need to calm her down again before doing any more training. I do this with tricks like shake hands, turn around in a circle, put her front feet on a book, keep her front feet on that book, back up... etc.

Hope this helps!

[bridgie_cat]

2. I have a couple.... since Lana loves the herding/chasing type game I can get her worked up just darting off and when she runs that way I go back the other way - simple. Sometimes I with push her around etc to make it more fun... sometimes I will do this to wake her up going into the ring... but more so I like to use it inbetween exercises in training etc as a reward/wake her up again type thing...

I also like to play the "sneaking" game... I will get really quiet and take slow steps then say GO and start running... sometimes I will add a shhhhh or "you ready???" under my breath - always quiet... so now if she hears this or sees me start to creep she starts bouncing and going silly! I was doing this earlier with her just walking out back and got my brother really confused as he couldnt see what I was doing and she was going mental

eta - the silly tricks like spin etc are good also as she associates this with lots of treats and fun training etc... also gets her a bit focused on what I am doing...

Edited December 27, 2007 by bridgie_cat

[ness]

Leopuppy what do you mean UD takes some time I thought I told you how to get started . You need Ptolomy boot camp .

[ness]

Go get a lesson from Linda LP and what about looking at some of our old chats I think I already explained some of the UD exercises and how to teach them to you already .

Edited December 28, 2007 by ness

[Arya]

Hey LP As you know Tess the naughty has the full UD now. I don't believe there is anything in UD you can teach that will cause problems with Open. The bits of advice I have is to train (as you have plenty of time) one or two exercises at a time until they are solid, then chain them all together. Othes may disagree but I don't pattern train either. I will mix the order of exercises up and name them for the dog so the dog knows what's coming by the name. Make the seek back a huge toy too. And start very very slow with scent discrimination and keep it super fun for the dog, so they look forward to doing it and don't fail. The biggest longest exercise for Tess to learn was box and directed jumping. I taught box first, separately, in the living room. Set it up and send the dog to it from a metre away and then work backwards. Once box is solid and you've progressed from living room to back yard to park whatever, then place the jumps in position. You will be surprised to find that this may stuff up the dog running to the box. So when you train box, take the dog around all sides and have him run into the box from different directions. Why? I found the orientation of the box and what the dog looks at as they run to it makes the difference. I am fussy I want Tess sitting right in the middle of the box so I went back and retrained her to run to a mark in the box, then faded the mark, so she was sitting just where I wanted to her. To get them to sit quickly in the box, if they do a spin or twist, before you have them go to the box ask for a spin and sit, a twist and sit. Take note of which way the dog turns when they hit the box and sit, to help you with this. There are so many tips, so many things I've learnt as I taught Tess the UD exercises. But the one thing I found was UD beats the hell out of all the other classes. Novice is boring. Open isn't that much more exciting except for dumbell. But UD is the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now all I have to do is this year.... try to get the hell out of Novice and thru Open and into our favourite LOL

[Ptolomy]

Leopuppy........something to ponder - why stop at UD you should be thinking about UDX NOW!

I have 3 UD dogs and one trialling in UDX - what have I done differently with my young dog who is about to hit the open ring and knows a few of the UD exercises.

I have started teaching dog in the box - using both a box and a hula hoop - sometimes around the box or the hula hoop I have 4 cones - this is in readiness for the sendaway in UDX. Eventually I will fade the hoop and just have the cones out.

Seekback I originally taught it to my first dog as there is something out there, go and find it. Now in UDX she has the most problems with the seekback with decoy. For my new dog - I will be doing it as a long distance scent discrimination - there will be more than one article out there - originally they will be started close together and I will gradually move them further and further apart and will later introduce somebody elses scent to the decoy articles.

Gloves - argh - make sure you train them at more than 12m - the number of UDX dogs that run out 12m to find the blind retrieve article and cant. Also use things other than gloves for the dog to retrieve. We actually teach this exercise using food bowls (have a look in the oz obedience training file)

And I would take Ness's advice and go and have a lesson with somebody you admire and agree with their training style. It will get you heading in the right direction.....

Good luck

PS - I play a lot with 2 of my UD dogs in the ring. Lara between each exercise throws herself on the ground and rubs her back on the grass and does a complete roll, I usually ras her up by telling her I am going to get her, we also do spins, play touch and weaving between the legs. Scoota doesn't do tricks he has taken to me pushing him away, rubbing his chest patting his backside, pushing him again. It makes him go all goofy and is something you can also do between exercises.

[Arya]

Hey Ptolomy, do you use a mark for the dog to run to in the sendaway? I can get the Sch. sendaway with a mark too with no box just the mark, or you know it's weird, if you say 'on your mark' the dog will turn and either sit, drop or stand with no mark. Must be an imaginary one in her head! LOL. Hula hoop, fun idea

[Ptolomy]

No I don't use a mark for the dog to run to in the sendaway. I trained the dog I am currently trialling in UDX by placing food in the middle of the prescribed area - this was after we went through the stage of her thinking the exercise was to sit next to the witches hats :D and is why I have changed the way I train the other kids. You can also tell the dog to sit in UDX without a deduction.

[Ptolomy]

Oops pushed send too quickly. I then faded the food. I also use the same command "dog in the box" that I use for UD.

The other exercise you can start ASAP without affecting UD training is the change of positions - going from the sit or down to the stand is the hardest - without the dog moving forwards or backwards.

[leopuppy04]

Thanks everyone for their responses! Ptolomy - UDX is scary! I don't know whether we'll do that or not :D!

So far I've been teaching the box through clicker training. It seems to be working well (granted we only started 2 days ago!). He will also pick up each of the scent articles on a normal retrieve (making sure he knows to pick up each one before doing the 'hard stuff').

We also just started seekbacks whereby I'll drop the article infront of us, heel past it a short way and tell him to 'seek'.. He looves the game and shock, horror (many people would have heard me say my dog lacks a nose) he sniffs for it if he can't 'find' it straight away. He just loooves the seekback.

For gloves - I have only just found a set and have simply been getting him to retrieve it (one only) so that's another fun game :D.

About the seekback - someone told me that I shouldn't use a leather article as the smell of leather will stay on my hands - anyone got anything more on this?

About training with friends - I have a great network at club, but everyone is on holiday mode at the moment. I also have a great training friend, but she lives in NZ ;).... Might see if I can 'hook up' with a few others though :D

For razzing the dogs up - sounds like I do similar, although sometimes it just *doesn't* work on Leo :D

Edited December 29, 2007 by leopuppy04

[Cosmolo]

LP- how about conditioning a whistle or similar to get them razzed up. When i first met my OH he had taught his dogs to respond to different whistles to herd cattle. Although they don't herd cattle anymore, they still respond to the whistle by getting REALLY excited. Did the same with Cosmo when she was chasing seagulls etc and now anytime she hears my whistle (which is a different one from one that means come here) she gets excited, no matter what she's doing. Just need to pair it with a high drive event.

[Ptolomy]

I use a leather seekback for all my kids and to the best of my knowledge it hasn't affected them. ;)

In fact, I may be wrong but I think that most people trialling in WA use leather for their seekback. But then we are a bit different in the West! :D

[Arya]

I use a leather article for seek back. The dog can easily differentiate. Before commencing any sort of formal seek back I made it a very high value toy. Really seriously as high as Tess' hose we use for reward. Then I pulled it out and made a big deal of the whole thing. I now have a dog who will retrieve the seek back at lightning speed. The only fault with this method is when you heel off, the dog gets very drivey and it took Tess a while to heel as nicely as she does when it's not seek back as she would get excited and forge forward and then sit only just barely, waiting to be sent to retrieve. Look at seek back as a huge retrieval game and I don't reckon you can fail. I have watched others iwth this exercise and the ones who do well also make big deal out of the retrieval aspect. The ones who don't the dogs are much slower. Just my take on it anyway :D The more fun and hype, the better for me and Tess LOL.

[ness]

Geez I was going to say yep they are different over in the West but I think most people in SA also use a leather seekback article - they all have these fancy plaited leather ones for the most part so maybe we aren't that different from WA ;) - well ok as far as seekback articles go :D .

Edited December 29, 2007 by ness