Parvo Contamination

[chooky]

Hi, just wondering if anyone can help.

We just lost our beautiful lab pup to parvo, she was due for her 2nd injection 1 week ago and i was waiting until xmas was over to re-vacinate on the misconception that she was safe as she never left our back yard.

My 3 year old son is extremelly sad and misses her terribly. Our vet told us that we only needed to wait for a few weeks to get another pup and yet I have read in many websites that you need to wait for about 9 months???

Also we are thinking of mabe adopting a dog from the local pound that was alittle older, I believe that once a dog/pup has had it's 3 lots of injections it is fully covered from getting parvo. If anyone knows if I am either right or wrong about this can they please let me know.

[Cavandra]

I am very sorry to hear of your poor puppy :cool:

To answer your question about 3 puppy shots giving coverage, the answer is "NO"..........If the puppy has been incorrectly vaccinated, no amount of injections will work. The old ways (which has been proven to be wrong) is to give the first shot at 6 weeks.

A puppy MUST be weaned from its mother (ie antibodies in the milk) for a minimum of 2 weeks before the first shot is given. In reality this would make most pups 8-10 weeks before the first shot is given, if given too early as most Australian vets do the pup will not have immunity.

I know of an 11 month old Rottie who has just died of Parvo also, the owner presumed it was covered by the 3 shots it had as a baby, but no it isnt as the first one was at 6 weeks :D

Read Dr Jean Dodds studies on puppy vaccinations to understand what needs to be done, as you will find most Australian Vets are in the dark ages when it comes to Vaccines!

[Dogsfevr]

Whether adult or pup being vaccinated does not guarantee 100% proctection but it does decrease the chances enormously.

With parvo its a case of getting to the vet sooner than latter.

Not leaving the backyard doesnt mean safe either as you can bring it home on your shoes or a visitor can bring it over.

[chooky]

I am very sorry to hear of your poor puppy

To answer your question about 3 puppy shots giving coverage, the answer is "NO"..........If the puppy has been incorrectly vaccinated, no amount of injections will work. The old ways (which has been proven to be wrong) is to give the first shot at 6 weeks.

A puppy MUST be weaned from its mother (ie antibodies in the milk) for a minimum of 2 weeks before the first shot is given. In reality this would make most pups 8-10 weeks before the first shot is given, if given too early as most Australian vets do the pup will not have immunity.

I know of an 11 month old Rottie who has just died of Parvo also, the owner presumed it was covered by the 3 shots it had as a baby, but no it isnt as the first one was at 6 weeks

Read Dr Jean Dodds studies on puppy vaccinations to understand what needs to be done, as you will find most Australian Vets are in the dark ages when it comes to Vaccines!

Hi Cavandra,

thankyou for the information it will be useful in the future.

while we are not looking at getting another dog just yet we do want to get another one for my son. Would you know how long we need to wait after having a dog with parvo in our yard? The last thing we want is this to happen again, and I think my vet has misinformed us on only having to wait 2 weeks.

[Guest Tess32]

I've been reading on a US forum that this maternal antibody thing is not so clear cut as the 6 week vaccination not working at all, it seems more complex.

I'm vaccinating at 14 weeks instead of 12 anyway, just be sure, and will give a PARVAC injection at 10 weeks.

[PooMother]

So are you vaccinating at 8 with say C3 etc follwed by a Parvac at 10 weeks then another shot at 12-14? Do you get a third? Asking as hubby has a puppy who has had 3 vaccinations but I am also getting a puppy and am now concerned for his health, he would opnly have had 1 shot.....

I've been reading on a US forum that this maternal antibody thing is not so clear cut as the 6 week vaccination not working at all, it seems more complex.

I'm vaccinating at 14 weeks instead of 12 anyway, just be sure, and will give a PARVAC injection at 10 weeks.

[JulesP]

Not sure were this 'they have to be weaned' has come from. Pups only get the antibodies in the first day or two. Some pups can still have the antibodies at 6 weeks, some don't. They need to be vaccinated as the mother's antibodies fade.

Really the only way to know for sure is to get a blood test.

[Guest Tess32]

So are you vaccinating at 8 with say C3 etc follwed by a Parvac at 10 weeks then another shot at 12-14? Do you get a third? Asking as hubby has a puppy who has had 3 vaccinations but I am also getting a puppy and am now concerned for his health, he would opnly have had 1 shot.....

He was already vaccinated at 6 weeks - hadn't started reading anything then and it's pretty standard still anyway.

I was concerned that if he did have low immunity it would be a 6 week gap to 12 weeks and no shot. As parvo is definitely around I decided to cover him with PARVAC at the earliest date (10 weeks), so he will be safer by 12 weeks. By the time I vaccinate for a C3 he wil be 14 weeks, safe by 16 weeks.

That's it, I am not doing another booster but may follow up with a parvac at 6 months, a yearly booster at 12 months and then I will take a titer test from then on.

[blacklabrador]

the misconception that she was safe as she never left our back yard.

Not if there is parvo already in the soil of your backyard. It's a very hardy virus which lives for years. Keeping your pup in your backyard is a means of minimising the risk but it's no guarantee.

Sorry to hear about your baby.

[sidoney]

Not sure were this 'they have to be weaned' has come from. Pups only get the antibodies in the first day or two. Some pups can still have the antibodies at 6 weeks, some don't. They need to be vaccinated as the mother's antibodies fade.

Really the only way to know for sure is to get a blood test.

Yes, that is true. Antibodies are large proteins that can only pass into the puppy in the first couple of days. The amount of antibodies the puppy has is associated with level of maternal antibodies, and the amount of colostrum the puppy drinks.

Vaccinations are ineffective when the puppy has high immunity from the maternal antibodies. There is a "window" where the pup can get parvo, after maternal antibodies fade and before effective vaccination. However there are newer vaccines that are supposed to be able to cut through the maternal antibodies.

the misconception that she was safe as she never left our back yard.

Not if there is parvo already in the soil of your backyard. It's a very hardy virus which lives for years. Keeping your pup in your backyard is a means of minimising the risk but it's no guarantee.

Sorry to hear about your baby.

Yes, it's very tragic for you all. It must have been very horrible and upsetting for you.

Parvo could also have been flown in on the feet of flies. Flies can land in contaminated poo, then come to visit you.

At this stage, I would not be getting a puppy at all, but an older dog that is vaccinated and less susceptible. I would also avoid parvo sensitive breeds.

A benefit of getting an older dog is that you can get one (a fostered rescue, or an older breeder placement, as examples) whose temperament you can be sure of as being suitable for a three year old boy. A puppy is often too boisterous for a young child and I personally don't tend to place puppies in homes with very young children, unless I know that the adults are experienced enough with dogs to manage it.

Edited December 28, 2007 by sidoney

[sidoney]

Also we are thinking of mabe adopting a dog from the local pound that was alittle older, I believe that once a dog/pup has had it's 3 lots of injections it is fully covered from getting parvo. If anyone knows if I am either right or wrong about this can they please let me know.

I just want to add, to repeat what I've said above - I would be adopting from a rescue group that does in-home fostering. That way you can be sure of the temperament and health status of the dog. By adopting the rescue group's foster dog, you free up a space in that group for another pound dog to be saved.

[helen]

Sorry about your pup.

What I have been told (by qualified people) is that the first vaccination was introduced for the limited times where pups do not have sufficient antibodies from their mother for whatever reason, could be mother's vaccination is not up to date. The 16 week vaccination is important as if the mother has a high level of immunity this will pass to the pups and could last up to 16 weeks making previous vaccinations ineffective.

There are some cases for whatever reason the pups immune system never picks up on the vaccination and they never develop antibodies.

Parvo can live in the ground up to 7 years, if you have been at your residence less time than this maybe there has been parvo there previously.

I would recommend talking to your vets for advice on getting another dog.

[Guest Tess32]

Sidoney, do you know the newer vaccines that are thought to combat the maternal antibodies?

[sidoney]

I read it somewhere ... will see if I can refind it. Not sure if it's available in Australia, I think I read about it in the US context, but it was a little while ago now.

Edit: here is some info from this page. The key phrase is "high titer" (or in Australia, "high titre").

MATERNAL ANTIBODY: OUR BIGGEST OBSTACLE

The biggest problem in protecting a puppy against this infection ironically stems from the natural mechanism of protection that has evolved. As mentioned previously, puppies obtain their immunity from their mother’s first milk, the colostrum, on the first day of life. This special milk contains the mother’s antibodies against parvovirus and until these antibodies wane to ineffective levels, they will protect the puppy.

The problem is that they will also inactivate vaccine.

Vaccine is a solution of inactivated virus, either live and weakened (“attenuated” or “modified”) or killed. This virus is injected into the puppy. If there is still adequate maternal antibody present, this vaccine virus will be destroyed just as if it were a real infection. There will be a period of about a week when there is not enough maternal antibody to protect the puppy but too much to allow a vaccine to work. (This period is called the “window of vulnerability.”) Then after this, vaccine can be effective.

The next problem is the age at which vaccine can be effective is different for each individual puppy.

To get around this, we vaccinate puppies in a series, giving a vaccine every 2-4 weeks until age 16 weeks. By age 16 weeks, we can be certain that maternal antibodies have waned and vaccine should be able to “take.” It should be recognized that some individuals, especially those of well vaccinated mothers, must be vaccinated out to 20 weeks (unless a “high titer” vaccine is used.)

After a puppy is born, maternal antibody levels drop by half approximately every 10 days.

Puppies that were born first or were more aggressive at nursing on the first day, will get more maternal antibody than their littermates.

Mother dogs vaccinated at approximately the time of breeding will have the highest antibody levels to pass on to their puppies.

*** REMEMBER, the more maternal antibody a puppy has,

the less likely a vaccine is to work.

SHOULD LIVE OR KILLED VACCINE BE USED?

Killed vaccine is the least effective at penetrating maternal antibody. It is also associated with more vaccine reactions (since more stabilizing chemicals are used in a killed vaccine). We recommend using live parvo vaccine only unless there is any question about the immunologic competence of the dog to be vaccinated and the dog is an adult. Killed vaccine should probably not be relied upon for puppies.

WHAT IS A HIGH TITER VACCINE?

In the mid-1990’s a new innovation in parvo vaccination was developed: the “high titer” vaccine. The term “high titer” refers to the amount of virus in the dose of vaccine and means that there is a great deal more virus than in the standard vaccines. When the puppy is vaccinated, maternal antibody binds the virus present. If a high titer vaccine is used, there is still virus left over after all the maternal antibody has been used up. This extra virus can then stimulate the puppy’s own immune system. High titer vaccines commonly produce full protection by age 12 weeks (though we recommend carrying vaccination out to age 16 weeks to be certain - an especially good idea for breeds predisposed to infection such as the rottweiler, doberman pinscher and American pit bull terrier).

Currently the following biological companies make high titer parvovirus vaccines:

o PFIZER ANIMAL HEALTH (the Vanguard Puppy Vaccine)

o INTERVET (the Progard Vaccine)

o MERIAL (the Recombitek C4 and C6 vaccines)

o FORT DODGE (the Puppy Shot)

o SCHERING-PLOUGH ANIMAL HEALTH (the Galaxy Vaccine)

It should be noted that giving vaccine more frequently than every 2 weeks will cause interference between the two vaccines and neither can be expected to be effective. This includes giving vaccines for different infections. Vaccines should be spaced 2-4 weeks apart.

It is commonly held that puppies need a certain number of vaccines for protection to be achieved (usually either 3 or 4 is the “magic” number). The number of vaccines given has nothing to do with protection. In order for protection to be achieved, vaccine must be given when it can penetrate maternal antibody.

Edited December 28, 2007 by sidoney

[special_kali]

that's really interesting information, could it be stickied???

[Clyde]

My vet have started doing the Nobivac vaccines (3 yearly), with only two puppy shots (rather than the 3) thus they plug the ability to socialise your puppy earlier.... has anyone here looked in to this vaccine?

[Jed]

So sorry to hear about your pup. Don't beat yourself up about the second vaccination - the pup probably would have contracted parvo anyhow, as the vaccine wouldn't have had time to work.

The length of time parvo persists in the soil varies, depending on which expert you read. I have been told 1 year, and 7 years.

Have you been living in your current house for very long?

You might be better to get an adult (fully vaccinated) dog, or an older puppy which has had all it's shots, and time for them to work.

A friend of mine, a vet, lost an adult staffy to parvo. She had been vaccinated every year, but according to research, the vaccinations cancel each other out, and the dog has no protection.

Dru

has anyone here looked in to this vaccine?

I don't know, but my vet touted the "new" you beaut 3 year vaccination, and it was exactly the same as the "old" vaccination, just repackaged to fit in with the new protocol. Which I have been following for years anyhow.

[chooky]

We have been in our house for 13 years and we built, so there has been no previous cases of parvo.

after hearing what alot have said we have decided to get an older dog in a month or so, probably between 6 and 18 months old that has been fully vacinated. We are going to get a dog from a shelter, save one in need.

Thanks alot for advice.

Edited December 30, 2007 by chooky

[Clyde]

There are also 15 older Labs from registered breeders listed here: http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/mature...r-retriever.asp

[chooky]

There are also 15 older Labs from registered breeders listed here: http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/mature...r-retriever.asp

That is fantastic thankyou!