Devices To Stop Pulling

[MonElite]

Pay a professional dog trainer? No. I have an Australian Shepherd. They are not a breed known to be agressive, they are highly intelligent and responsive to training and in figuring it out as we go,

The OP asked what people used to stop dogs pulling so she can help her customers more appropriately.

not everyone is a top notch dog trainer with years of experience under their belt and not everyone wants to hire someone to train the dog.

Im a bit puzzled - do you think professional trainers only work with people that have agressive dogs?

I understand YOU dont want to hire someone but to most people waiting months for results you have is just not an option. People want a quick fix and often can get one if they pay for professional tuition.

[Erny]

People want a quick fix and often can get one if they pay for professional tuition.

And in these cases, it's about the proper technique, which in turn helps the dog learn faster. This is often less stressful on the dog.

ETA: I've just given a lesson to a person who has for the last couple of years tried (in his own way) to teach his dog to walk on a loose lead. He'd tried numerous tools, including flat collar; check chain and head collar. His dog is great in every other way, as far as basic obedience is concerned. He is for the most part a "positive trainer" so to speak. When out on this lesson, his dog was walking nicely on lead within the first 15 minutes (I didn't time it and I think I'm being generous with the time allowance.) At the end of the lesson I mentioned to him that he now needs to make walking "fun" for both of them. Praise/reward more. Relax. Allow the dog to enjoy. Allow himself to enjoy this new 'walking' experience.

I thought that perhaps he wasn't praising/rewarding as much as he ought because he felt uncomfortable with someone (ie me) watching over him. I had to continue to remind him to take a second here and there to praise his dog. He admitted to me that it wasn't that I was looking on but that he'd spent so much time throughout his walks stopping and trying to bring his dog back to a loose lead that he'd FORGOTTEN how to have fun with it.

I heard from him again the next day to let me know that his dog still remembered the lesson from the day before and that walking was now beginning to be such a delight. For him AND for his dog. I love it when I see a happy harmony in an exercise (and in other cases, in relationships) evolve where it might have been lacking before. Makes my day.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Erny

[Erny]

ETA: The point of the above ..... it is NOT so much about the tool, although the right tool for the right dog for the right handler for the right reasons does help a lot. It is VERY MUCH about the training technique and HOW the chosen tool is used. And if a person doesn't know how to properly use the tool, there is no substitution for good tuition. IMO, there is no escaping this. So no, I don't think the thread went OT. BP - if you've not found tuition helpfull, then perhaps you didn't find the right teacher and I'm sorry if that was the case for you. I wouldn't have thought that is commonly so, though.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Erny

[BrunoBella]

Ernie, I do agree you need some information but there are other ways to get it. I went to three lots of tuition (puppy, beginner and intermediate) and whilst I learned some basic obedience nobody could teach me how to walk my dog properly and no-one taught me how to correct my dog - which is the one thing that works beautifully for Bella. I personally would never take another dog the doggy school way. I did learn a lot from private tuition. My issue is with mulitple student dog classes where you are lucky to get 3 minutes per week of instructor time, high stress levels and lack of knowledge by the volunteers. One time I asked how to fix Bella's pulling on the lead and I was told they sold me a halti and said "You have to figure that out yourself" .

I gave away the school also left the school after that. I believe dog schools are so focused on competition they forget to teach people the basics. I also believe that a person with no dog knowledge needs training but I would recommend private training.

I found alternative ways to train Bella (drive training and correction) and used these immediately on Bruno. I can now solve any problems in a day or two using the information I have learned.

BP

---edited to add:

After a glass of wine, I thought of more stuff.

A friend of mine went to dog school in Hervey Bay and they spent heaps of time teaching the dogs to walk past each other without reacting, we never did this at the school I went to.

Edited December 27, 2007 by BellasPerson

[Erny]

Hey BP .... I'm still sorry that you didn't receive the right tuition - or, by the sounds of it NO tuition. If is as reported, then the fault was the school, but there are definately better schools out there.

Evidenced by this : ....

A friend of mine went to dog school ... and they spent heaps of time teaching the dogs to walk past each other without reacting, we never did this at the school I went to.

Having said that, I agree that nothing beats a private lesson - even if it is just a "here and there" situation to get people over the hurdles they might be experiencing.

In relation to this thread, however, the original post content asks "which training tool?". I honestly don't think that can be answered in "blanket" fashion. As has been mentioned, much depends on the dog, its age, physical health; the problems being experienced, the owners' capabilities etc. etc.

There is no one book that necessarily covers every one of those aspects. To recommend a book means an assumption that the general joe will be able to interpret it appropriately and determine whether their dog and their situation suits. It's good that you've managed to do that (although perhaps some of the actual tuition you did receive gave you a bit of a heads up with coming to understand training), but it's a tall assumption to expect that many others will be able to do the same without coming a cropper.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Erny

[Gayle.]

I know the preferred way on this forum is to pay a professional to teach your dog, but it's not my way. I prefer to learn it myself, no matter what it is. If it takes longer, so be it.

I go to dog obedience club and I really love it, I've had lots of valuable help there but we couldn't start til Benson was 18 weeks old due to his vaccination schedule and by then he was pulling like a steam train.

Once I realised it was a problem and started teaching him to walk on a loose lead, I saw results straight away....the results did not take months to happen, but it took months before he stopped pulling all the time. We started our training in the driveway and he wouldn't pull while we were in the driveway.....but as soon as we stepped out of the yard, things got more interesting the more distractions we came across. We simply worked on not pulling towards the distractions.

[Cosmolo]

Gayle- just one thing- its actually pay a professional to teach you, i don't know many private trainers who just teach the dog And what Erny said!

[MonElite]

I know the preferred way on this forum is to pay a professional to teach your dog, but it's not my way. I prefer to learn it myself, no matter what it is. If it takes longer, so be it.

I dont really think it is. yes often advice given here is to go and see a pro, but a pro might mean a trainer in the ob club.

Also no trainer here takes dog in for tuition they only teach the owners to teach the dogs - just like the instructors do in the clubs. Im not a pro but I do instruct at a club. We teach the owners to teach their dogs.

And if people come to the club and do one hour a week/moths of training with their dog in the class no matter how good the instructor is that dog will take month,years or if ever to stop pulling.

I do belive that a one on one can be very helpfull. Wether you pay for it or you get it for free its just economics of it.

[jaybeece]

I have trained my dog not to pull but it has taken a very long time (6 months) and he still does pull sometimes....when he sees another dog and wants to go say hello etc. Mostly I use a correction collar as that's what the instructors at obedience have been teaching me with.

But for times when he absolutely CANNOT pull.....such as if we're in a crowd of people or if my 13yo daughter wants to take charge of him, we use a Gentle Leader head halter. While I realise it's not a training aid, he simply doesn't pull when he's wearing it.

I use a choker & halti too.

I spent a good couple of months trying to figure out how to stop pulling, but as soon as I had it figured out he improved in a matter of days. That said, he still will pull to get at other dogs as well as cats from time to time, but for general walking he's very good.

These days I can walk him on a flat collar most of the time and control him verbally, so the choker's been a really useful training tool. I really would have preferred a prong, but they're illegal in Vic.

The halti is brilliant for enclosed or crowded situations where I need absolute control. It has never taught him not to pull though, I see it as purely a management tool.

I think the appeal of devices like the sporn and halti is that they require very little knowledge of training and very little time to work. These days everyone wants the quick fix, they don't want to take the longer, more challenging (although more effective) route if they can whack a bandaid over the problem.

[sas]

we have chech chains, martingales, flat collars and your adverage harnesses too (which most ppl seem to thing stop pulling)

i was wanting to be able to give as much help as possible

For me, a martingale is what you use on a dog that has a smaller head than neck, and you use it to have greater assurance that it will not back out of its collar when it sees a cat off to its right. So, it's the first option for most sighthounds. That said, at least one of our guys has backed out of a martingale - they're not foolproof (heh) but they are better than a flat collar for the smaller headed beasties.

I would not recommend them as an anti-pull device.

Pulling is one of those things that is very simple, but terribly complex at the same time. If I were selling something in a shop to stop pulling, it would probably be a book that explains that you should reward the behaviour you want to see, and not reward the behaviour you don't want to see. That is, pulling = no walking, no exciting sniffing, no fun. Loose lead = lots of nice sniffs, free walking and fun.

A martingale with the chain link and positioned high on the neck like a show collar is a great tool for training.

[BrunoBella]

A martingale with the chain link and positioned high on the neck like a show collar is a great tool for training.

Agree totally with SAS. This has been effective on both my dogs and is very easy to use.

I have Bella on a prong collar as well - which is fantastic - but now Bruno walks beautifully on his martingale I have time to train Bella back to the Martingale. Had her first lesson yesterday and I did a few corrections and she was walking as well as she does on the prong . I had to leave bella on the prong while Bruno was in training cause I can't get my corrections timed properly when I have to concentrate on two at the same time. I must be getting old .

BP

[Gayle.]

Gayle- just one thing- its actually pay a professional to teach you

Yep, I know what you mean but I prefer to learn it myself, in my own way and in my own time.

Benson and I have graduated from puppies and beginners classes at obedience school, we wouldn't have if he pulled on the lead.

A few years ago, I decided to teach myself photography (yes this is relevant, bear with me). I bought books, I read forums, I bought some fantastic camera gear and I started to take photos. I became very active on a couple of popular photography forums and entered a lot of online photo challenges. My photos were pretty good and drew lots of comments. They also drew lots of criticism which I learned from.

I learned from very experienced amatuers and some very good professionals. The problem was that after a couple of years, instead of enjoying the photos I took, I gradually started to see them as a series of blown highlights, soft edges, slightly out of focus eyes, colour casts, incorrect white balance........I was seeing my photos as a series of massive flaws. I could not sit back and enjoy the photos I took because all I saw were the faults. Also on the photography forums I haunted, I was warned over and over that because I was an amatuer, I should never attempt something so important as wedding photography because if I made mistakes I could completely ruin the newlyweds memories of their special day.

Well, one day I finally saw the forest instead of just looking at the trees. I stopped going to photography forums, I photographed some weddings and a couple of other major life milestones, I started to once again enjoy looking at the photos I took and in doing so, started to enjoy my hobby again.

Now I have my dog. He's a beautiful boy, very intelligent and my pride and joy. I love hanging out with him, he has such a happy outlook on life that he makes me feel good about being me. He loves me, and he shows that in every wiggle of his body and every wag of his tail. He's very enthusiastic about the things he loves to do with me, including taking a walk. Sometimes he pulls, mostly he doesn't now cos we've been working on it and sometimes I use a tool to make sure he cant pull so that I can take him places where I normally wouldn't.

We joined the obedience club which is a big thing for me, cos I am not a club-going person but we both love it. We love spending our Saturday mornings with other people and their dogs, we love that people give up their time to instruct others and we're lucky enough to have some very experienced instructors and obedience judges in the club.

In teaching my dog obedience and general life skills, I never ever want to get to the point where I start thinking of him as a "fault". "Pulls on the lead", "has bad recall", "jumps on people". Because I might then stop enjoying the wonderful pet that he is. And I will never pay someone to teach me something I am having such a good time learning myself, even though it might be quicker and easier. I prefer the long way round, enjoying my boy as we go. And knowing that neither of us is perfect but we're a pretty good match anyway.

We don't just show up for a once a week class......we work on obedience and his tricks almost every day. Not for long....sometimes half an hour, sometimes a few snatches of 5 minutes here and there, sometimes just while we're out walking. He loves it, but like all young blokes, he can get bored sometimes and when he does I stop the lesson and we do something else.

And if the OP would like to sell products to her customers that will fit her customers situations, I can highly reccomend a Sporn harness as being comfortable for the dog but a bit of a bugger to put on.......but it does stop him pulling, and I can also reccomend a Gentle Leader head halter, but learn how to fit one properly and show your customers how to do it. Because if you bang on about how they should pay a professional to teach them how to train their dog, they'll just walk right out the door and go to another pet store and buy what they want there.

[sas]

I don't think Dog Training & Photography should be put on the same level.

You don't make your camera unahppy and unbalanced and stressed by not knowing how to communicate with it.

[Tonymc]

I agree wholeheartedly with Sas.A Camera is an inert object devoid of instinct and emotion,not in any way comparable to training a Dog. Tony

[MonElite]

teaching a dog not to pull isnt putting some device on the dog and hoping for the best. Its not the device its how you train the dog.

and you Gayle might be very sucessfull in what you do/achieved but I can assure you that many people arent.

Tell me - why wouldnt you recomend a professional advice to someone? is it the $$? or uncertainty of quality of service? or what?

[Gayle.]

You don't make your camera unahppy and unbalanced and stressed by not knowing how to communicate with it.

Nor do you make a collar and lead unhappy. But you sure can lose the enjoyment by starting to take yourself way too seriously. And my dog certainly isn't unhappy, in fact he's about the most joyous, full of life dog I've ever met. And he and I communicate perfectly well. Why do you think we don't?

Just another turn on the subject of training/non-pulling devices. Wouldn't you rather see a family pet taken out for regular walks with a non-pulling device, and taken on regular excursions, than being left in the backyard because he pulls too much? Yes, I can hear you now....."TRAIN THE DOG NOT TO PULL! GET HELP FROM A PROFESSIONAL!"

But a lot of people won't. And is it really that detrimental to the dog to wear a Sporn harness and be walked regularly? I think not.

[Gayle.]

why wouldnt you recomend a professional advice to someone? is it the $$? or uncertainty of quality of service? or what?

I didn't say I wouldn't recommend professional advice to anyone. I said I would not go to a professional dog trainer myself. I am me, I am not other people, I speak for me and from my own experience. There might be other people the OP is selling non-pulling devices to who have similar views to me, who don't want to go to a dog trainer or who simply don't have access to one.

And there might also be ones that want to train their own dog but use a non-pulling device as an interim measure as I've been doing.

ETA, for me it's a combination of all your reasons. I don't know anyone who has used a local dog trainer (I am not in a metro area) although one of the vets at the place I take the pets to is a dog trainer. I have no feedback about anyone so I'm not about to drop hard-earned $$$ on something so uncertain. Also I don't like being tied to someone elses schedule when mine is all over the place and likely to change at any minute. Plus I am having a ball doing it myself. Is that so very bad?

Edited December 28, 2007 by GayleK

[MonElite]

its not bad at all, I like to train my own dogs as well, and I like to learn things myslef.

My reaction to your post was that you dont recomend professional trainers, thats all.

[BrunoBella]

GayleK, you are obviously doing a good job training your dog in your own way and I am puzzled about all the comments you have been receiving. I thought - silly me - that everyone was allowed to do whatever they liked as long as their dogs were happy .

eta -----

Duh, this always happens and two people post together!

If someone doesn't believe in something then why should they be asked to recommend it. That's like asking me to recommend McDonalds.

Edited December 28, 2007 by BellasPerson

[Gayle.]

I have a serious question that requires a serious answer, with no flaming, no sanctimonious posturing and no smart remarks. I am merely interested.

Three non-pulling aids.

1. Head halter. Dog pulls, halter tightens around muzzle, dog dislikes the sensation and stops pulling.

2. Sporn harness. Dog pulls, harness tightens around it's chest? muscles (the muscles on it's body where the front legs join). Dog dislikes sensation and can't stretch it's forelegs to stride out, dog stops pulling.

3. Prong collar. Dog pulls, prongs pinch skin around neck, dog dislikes sensation and dog stops pulling.

How are two of them NOT training aids and one is an accepted (although illegal in Victoria) training aid to stop a dog from pulling hard on a leash? And yet the cause and effect are all very similar.

When I first started to train Benson, I used a webbing training collar, somewhat similar to a Martingale, I think. It was slack around the neck but with two rings to take up the slack when jerked on. The idea was to jerk the leash, dog would come back to my side (in theory) and I'd praise him for walking beside me.

Same principle as the correction collar (choke chain). You need the slack to jerk on the chain to give the correction.

All good in theory, but they both work on the principle that at some stage, the dog will allow the leash to go slack for a few seconds, long enough to give the correction.

Well, that all falls apart when the dog in question pulls so hard and so insistently that there IS no slack in the leash....not EVER!

Once I switched to some other non-pulling aids I was able to give positive reinforcement and teach him what HEEL actually meant. Cos while he was wearing the training collar, heel just wasn't a word I could even utter cos he wasn't even remotely close to my heels. At least with a halter on, he was and he learned fast that heel meant stay by my side and keep the leash loose. From there it was a fairly simple process to switch to a correction collar and start giving corrections.

Edited December 28, 2007 by GayleK