Devices To Stop Pulling

[Crysti_Lei]

i work in a pet supply shop and if i am not trying to help find an indestructable dog toy for a staffy or a lab, i am helping to find something to stop their dog pulling.

we really only have head collers, (Haltis, genlte leaders and i think sporn do one too) we have the harnesses with crorrrections, (like the sporn, and now the halti ppl have one too,) we have chech chains, martingales, flat collars and your adverage harnesses too (which most ppl seem to thing stop pulling)

i was wanting to be able to give as much help as possible so i have come here to here to get as many opinions on these products and more, and even some otheres that we don't have and can look at getting in.

right now i most often go for a halti, as i have used them for a lunging saint with good resultas, but with these and this the correction harnesses i feel they are used as a quick bandaid on the problem when the underlying ussues are never solved, as they aren't being used as a taining aid.

i recommended a martingale for a couple who had a 10 month old bull terrier that had already chewed through a halti, and my manager though i was a bit weird and said a sporn harned would be better. but onced again, if they ever had to put this dog on a flat collar later on, they would have been bach where they are now.

so any and all info on the subjuct would be super, and i think it should make for an interesting discussion.

Crysti

[Guest Willow]

with these and this the correction harnesses i feel they are used as a quick bandaid on the problem when the underlying ussues are never solved, as they aren't being used as a taining aid.

Crysti

spot on!!!!

A lot of people use an "anti pull device" and think that the problem ends there.

Whilst a lot of these tools physically correct a dog, they don't really change the way the dog thinks, so as soon as you remove the device, the old behaviour returns.

Perhaps they should be used as an interim measure in order to break the cycle & get the dog into a new way of thinking (& understanding what is acceptable & what is not) rather than the ultimate solution.

My own personal feeling is that if people choose to use anti pull devices, they should do so with a view that it is to be a temporary measure, whilst they work on the underlying causes for the pulling.

[Gayle.]

I have trained my dog not to pull but it has taken a very long time (6 months) and he still does pull sometimes....when he sees another dog and wants to go say hello etc. Mostly I use a correction collar as that's what the instructors at obedience have been teaching me with.

But for times when he absolutely CANNOT pull.....such as if we're in a crowd of people or if my 13yo daughter wants to take charge of him, we use a Gentle Leader head halter. While I realise it's not a training aid, he simply doesn't pull when he's wearing it.

For long, leisurely relaxed walks where he can sniff, paddle in puddles, do the doggy stuff he wants to do.....I use a Sporn harness. Another non-training aid but it stops him pulling, and it's comfy for him to wear (unlike the head halter, which he hates).

Different tools for different circumstances works best for me.

[Poodle wrangler]

I think you might get into trouble off your manager if you tell customers the truth:

These devices are no substitute for training their dogs to walk on loose leash!

Often they only work in the short term, too. More training, less gizmos .

IN the real world, I guess you could sell them something AND strongly encourage them to train.

Harnesses are what sled dogs use to pull ..

[Mystiqview]

Harnesses are good for one thing.. securing a dog in a car.

For pulling they encourage it because they can get their whole chest into it and pull even harder.

Haltis etc are like what people said.. good band-aids. The dog needs to learn NOT to pull.

A martingale is good for those who believe chains are 'cruel'. A chain used correctly will not damage the dog. Too many people correct incorrectly with a chain. The correction is across the dog, so you pull against the side of the neck.. Most people pull upwards, pulling on the tender underside of the throat.. so the risk of damaging the esophagus is great.

Haltis, people tend to want to pull sideways. again correction is wrong. They should be pulled up..

The problem I find with the brand "halti' is there is little movement in the fitting for dogs of large head size (staffies etc) and those dogs who have solid muzzles or long muzzles. A big dog or gentle leader has more room to fit those kind of dogs. A poorly fitted halti can also cause injury to underneath the eye socket as they ride up and dig in under the eyes.

When teaching a dog to walk on a loose leash, you do the training at home first.. then slowly add more distractions. Same goes for halti.. you cannot fit it and walk out to a busy street and think that the problem is going to be fixed. They are all training aides.. with a key emphasis on TRAINING

[SkySoaringMagpie]

we have chech chains, martingales, flat collars and your adverage harnesses too (which most ppl seem to thing stop pulling)

i was wanting to be able to give as much help as possible

For me, a martingale is what you use on a dog that has a smaller head than neck, and you use it to have greater assurance that it will not back out of its collar when it sees a cat off to its right. So, it's the first option for most sighthounds. That said, at least one of our guys has backed out of a martingale - they're not foolproof (heh) but they are better than a flat collar for the smaller headed beasties.

I would not recommend them as an anti-pull device.

Pulling is one of those things that is very simple, but terribly complex at the same time. If I were selling something in a shop to stop pulling, it would probably be a book that explains that you should reward the behaviour you want to see, and not reward the behaviour you don't want to see. That is, pulling = no walking, no exciting sniffing, no fun. Loose lead = lots of nice sniffs, free walking and fun.

[Tonymc]

the best thing to stop pulling I have found to be leadership and consistent training. Tony

[Janba]

A few uses for harnesses that spring to mind are sledding, weight pulling and tracking (where a dog can really lean onto the harness and pull if keen).

I agree with Tonymc, nothing beats training and leadership to stop a dog pulling.

[Gayle.]

The major difference is that some things STOP pulling (head collars, Sporn harnesses) and some things make it easier to teach the dog to stop pulling (correction collars, Martingales).

If your customers require something to stop the dog from pulling, they're not going to be impressed with being sold a device where they need to spend months training the dog and using the device to provide corrections.

And while it's all good and well to say the dog needs training (and I'll be the first to agree with that) training takes time, sometimes months and in the meantime they may want to take their dog out places without having their arm seperated from the shoulder. That's where I find the head halters and Sporn harness come in very handy.

I love taking my dog places, but there are places where having a dog straining at the leash is totally inappropriate, not to mention very uncomfortable for me. Using a device to stop him pulling meant that he could come with me and I would know that his behaviour was under control without me having to continually correct him.

[BrunoBella]

Interesting thread!

I started off training my youngest dog on a flat collar. That worked well till he got bigger and tried to challenge my leadership. I now have him on a Martingale which works wonderfully. Once bruno gets past his teenage stint I plan to try him back on a flat collar.

I will not use halti's as they led to so many problems with my oldest dog. I made lots of mistakes with Bella as I had little experience. She started on a flat collar and then a halti. She hated the halti and would try and roll over to take it off on every walk. I did not like the halti because her walking never improved using it. I then tried a check chain for a week but that was horrendous. Next was the martingale which was a slight improvement but she would still choke herself rather than stop. Lastly I had private training and learned to use a prong collar which Bella and I both love and has improved her walking tremendously. I can walk her using 1 finger

My problems with Bella came from inexperience so agree that training for the owner helps. The dog obedience classes I went to for a year did not help to teach me how to walk Bella. I learned that from reading this forum and from having private training. And now, Bruno has been a cinch to teach :cool:

I will not use check chains cause my dogs walk beautifully most of the time but can lunge very occasionally and the check chain is too dangerous IMO.

Both my dogs weight 25kgs and I walk them together so I have to have total control as they could drag me away :D .

[Lozzie]

I use a pro stop harness for my greyhound. He was never a huge puller, he is just a big boy with a big passion for cats, and there are dozens running around here. For safetys sake I have to be able to hold him if he gets excited enough to try to lunge or take off.

The harness seems to have drilled in the walking nicely principle and he walks beautifully on a martingale as well.

I tried an infin8 but they just don't work on the greyhound head, there is no bridge to stop it riding straight into their eyes.

[Tonymc]

Gayle,on the context of a dog pulling on leash.If I had a dog pulling on leash and it took me months to change this,then there would be flaws with the way I am going about it and the Dog would not be getting a clear message. Tony

[Mystiqview]

Please I do not want to make a dig at those who have larger breeds and as the dog gets older, wants to challenge leadership etc.. But at the same time, you are also making excuses in your training.

Before getting into Border Collies, I had dobermanns. My last one was personal protection trained. Caeser was about 39kgs in his prime. Even growing up, he wanted to challenge authority at times. All dogs not matter how large or small do this.

Training is about perserverence. I understand where people may not be experienced enough to go through this phase. However I find may obedience clubs do not properly teach how to use the equipment they sell. Likewise for pet shops. The gear hangs up on the walls, with little or no instruction on how to correctly use it.

This is where initiative comes into play.. Do some research. Internet is a good place to start to get the theory. Books are also good, And of course nothing beats been shown how to use it from a qualified trainer.

People who bag chains, many times do because they do not know how to correctly use a chain. This is the same for martingales, as they are based on the principle of a chain.

Head halters, sporn etc, also need to user to know the correct use. The rolling and trying to scratch it are common with many a dog. Most people do not spend the time at home letting the dog get used to the collar. The first time the dogs gets it on, is at fitting time, then again when the owner wants to take the dog for a walk.

Think back to when you first got your puppy.. And its first collar.. What did you do??? Put in on for short periods at a time, and rewarded them for not wanting to get it off!

We all love to take our dogs out wherever we go.. But when first training a dog to walk on any sort of lead, you do not try and walk down Queen Street where there are so may distraction they have to check out. You start somewhere quieter and slowly build up the level of distractions.

You need to learn to walk before you can run. A step the average pet owner does not understand

[Tonymc]

Mystiq, good post. Tony

[Erny]

Gayle,on the context of a dog pulling on leash.If I had a dog pulling on leash and it took me months to change this,then there would be flaws with the way I am going about it and the Dog would not be getting a clear message. Tony

Completely agree with Tony. Teaching a dog not to pull on lead is generally effected within a VERY short space of time ..... even ones that have spent their lifetime with their owners LEARNING to pull. The tool you use does play a part towards interpreting the message to the dog, but the way you work the exercise delivers the message in the first place.

Months? Ah ah. One session to begin achieving results? Yes.

Edited December 26, 2007 by Erny

[Mystiqview]

Tony,

Thanks for that.

I have had large breeds (Dobermanns) So the excuse alone that the dog is 35+ kilos does not wash with me. When you bought said dog, you would realise I hope that it is a large breed. My last dobermann was personal protection trained, so I had to make 100% sure I knew how to handle a dog with this training. To not do this, is shouting for trouble with a capital T.

Even my breed now of border collies, are known pullers. Many people who turn up to club have a problem with their BC pulling. A mature male BC can be around 25 kilos.

Personally, I will allow for some ignorance and lack of experience. But if you have identified this fault within yourself, Surely you would think the person would seek proper help. Rather than create multiple excuses for why the dog does something you do not want it to do.

I have been an obedience instructor with three clubs within the Brisbane limits. I know there are issues out there with instructors at clubs. Most of the people who instruct only know what they went through with their dog, and some do not look outside for other training ideas and tips. They are volunteers. If they were not shown in the first instance by their instructor how to correctly fit and work the equipment then the fault lies in the training of the instructors.

Then there is the 'stupid' people within the club.. For some, you can help. They are a dream to train. The others whose only training is on club night and you tell them the same things week after week, you can do nothing with. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

Too many people blame the tools of training.. Not the tool on the end of the lead. If results are not instantaneous, then they are no good. Some behaviour issues will take a long time to work through. Others take no time at all.

[mel and chev]

Hi

Off topic but whats the toughest toy you can recommend. I bought a tuffie tug toy thingy and this was what was left

a few days later it was half of that again.

[poodlefan]

I've seen a dog pull on every "anti-pulling" device on the market. There is no magic bullet - only training cures this problem.

The sporn harnesses would be the kindest in untrained hands. IMO haltis should not be sold to anyone who has a small dog.. too much leverage, too much potential for damage. They should NEVER be used by children.

[Gayle.]

Gayle,on the context of a dog pulling on leash.If I had a dog pulling on leash and it took me months to change this,then there would be flaws with the way I am going about it and the Dog would not be getting a clear message. Tony

I agree. I do not have the experience that you have. Benson is the first large-ish dog I've had and he is the first dog I've properly trained, aside from sit and get off the furniture. My previous dogs have been little ones and to be honest, I'd rather they pulled a bit and walked in front of me so I didn't trip over them,

I am learning as I go, but it's taking me a while and in the meantime, I can't just put the dog in the cupboard and bring it out to practise not pulling when I have a few minutes to spare each day. So I use tools that allow me to comfortably take the dog with me, socialise him with the rest of the world, without leaving my muscles screaming.

In doing so, I have a dog that I can take practically anywhere and know he'll behave. He is confident, friendly, unafraid of the world at large and yet polite and non-threatening to other dogs.

He is now 9 1/2 months old and mostly doesn't pull, but sometimes he does and he is immediately corrected.

Pay a professional dog trainer? No. I have an Australian Shepherd. They are not a breed known to be agressive, they are highly intelligent and responsive to training and in figuring it out as we go, I've formed a strong bond with my boy and I'm proud of what we've acheived so far.

The OP asked what people used to stop dogs pulling so she can help her customers more appropriately. I offered the tools I use in the circumstances I use them. They are the products she is selling, I thought my experience may have been valid as not everyone is a top notch dog trainer with years of experience under their belt and not everyone wants to hire someone to train the dog.

[BrunoBella]

GayleK, They did go a bit off topic so I sat and hid in the corner! I haven't found training useful except for a single one hour course a year ago. The rest did not help me and I haven't taken my second dog to training. I learned it all from books and the internet over time. I think some people on this forum have unrealistic expectations of people

Mel and Chev, have you tried rope toys? That is all that survives after my two have had them. New tennis ball - death = 10 seconds. New squeaky toy - death = 45 minutes. My first rope toy which cost me $2 is still alive .