Controlling Prey Drive

[MissMaddy]

My German Shepherd girl is practically 12 months old now.

The biggest problem I have with her is her prey drive kicking in when she's around other dogs. While I know it's part of her playing with them, she will chase another dog until she's about to drop pretty much (and loves it when they're going flat out, such as chasing a ball). Once she catches the other dog, depending on how dominant/submissive they are, she'll often jump at them, make a lot of noise, and if she knocks them over, jump on them and try to play really roughly.

While other German Shepherds don't seem to have a problem with this (they'll take it in turns as to who chases who), some other dogs (and more often their owners) get a bit intimidated by this playing. One dog (a doberman) she's been playing with since they were puppies (and this dobe used to be the one doing it to her) has started crouching and fear biting at her. I now just keep her away from this dog (which isn't fun, because my girl thinks she's her best friend), as it just turns frustrating when Zali tries everything she can to get her to play and the dobe just gets more scared.

I'm just wondering if anyone can suggest some strategies to try and control this prey drive in situations such as playing with other dogs that aren't as full on, so that she doesn't intimidate those dogs that don't see this as a fun game (like she does)?

[Arya]

My German Shepherd girl is practically 12 months old now.

The biggest problem I have with her is her prey drive kicking in when she's around other dogs. While I know it's part of her playing with them, she will chase another dog until she's about to drop pretty much (and loves it when they're going flat out, such as chasing a ball). Once she catches the other dog, depending on how dominant/submissive they are, she'll often jump at them, make a lot of noise, and if she knocks them over, jump on them and try to play really roughly.

While other German Shepherds don't seem to have a problem with this (they'll take it in turns as to who chases who), some other dogs (and more often their owners) get a bit intimidated by this playing. One dog (a doberman) she's been playing with since they were puppies (and this dobe used to be the one doing it to her) has started crouching and fear biting at her. I now just keep her away from this dog (which isn't fun, because my girl thinks she's her best friend), as it just turns frustrating when Zali tries everything she can to get her to play and the dobe just gets more scared.

I'm just wondering if anyone can suggest some strategies to try and control this prey drive in situations such as playing with other dogs that aren't as full on, so that she doesn't intimidate those dogs that don't see this as a fun game (like she does)?

Hi IMHO what you need to do is utilise that prey drive in the dog to work for you by firstly, NOT letting her tear around to play with other dogs but taking her off on her own and working to condition her to a prey object. I have said on this site lots that I use a bit or bits of hose. Check out 'the two hose game' on google. Otherwise, another article such as suitable ball or balls or tug toys for the dog. You must work to teach the dog to focus her drive on these though, it takes time, weeks. On the other hand, what you are describing may not be prey drive at all. Erny or one of the other experts here will be able to answer this better than me

I personally would work on using the dog's drive just you and her, keep the games to you and her, you are the queen of fun. Dogs must come second if you want to gain control over her. Anyway, hope that gives you some food for thought and is a bit of a help

[MissMaddy]

Thanks for your reply.

So would you suggest limiting her interactions with other dogs to just a quick hello, and leave until I can try to use this to my advantage?

When there are other dogs around, I find it extremely hard to try and get any sort of focus from her, unless we're at training, which she's learnt is different from our local park.

At the moment, other dogs are definitely her 1st priority, and getting her focus off them is the hardest thing, especially since she's very hard to even get to play with a toy if there's another dog around and running. The toy I use is a rolled up piece of towel, and she goes crazy for it, just loses her enthusiasm for it when there are other dogs around.

I guess I've been so focused on ensuring she's dog social, that I've let her become a bit too obsessed with them!

Although she had improved a lot in recent weeks, especially after going to Kepala. She's starting to move her focus back onto me, as the novelty of the other dogs starts to wear off.

ETA- I think I better contact k9 dog training to do their training in prey drive by correspondence. Given how focused she is on any other animal moving at a fast speed, I think if I can get this focus on me, we'll be set for obedience.

Edited December 20, 2007 by MissMaddy

[BrunoBella]

Getting K9d is a fantastic idea. I have done this myself twice now and I cannot tell you how much I have learned from that and from talking to others on the forum.

In the meantime, I know what Steve will tell you to do - keep away from offlead parks until you get this sorted out. You don't want something bad to happen in the meantime and one of the things I learned is that dogs don't need to go to dog parks ever. There is a fantastic old thread called "Socialisation" or something like that. Have a read of that and you will see what the problems are.

It's really easy to fix these problems but you need a professional advisor if you don't already know how to do it (like me with Bella). My second dog has never been to a dog park and he has no issues with any dogs or people. Bella went to lots of dog parks and is fearful of many dogs as she was bitten numerous times.

Hope I got that all right. One of the trainers will correct me if the champagne has dulled parts of my brain

Good luck

bp

[BrunoBella]

Here's the thread on socialisation .... Socialisation

[MissMaddy]

Thanks for your help BP, I'll contact Steve asap about his training.

I''ll also have a read of the thread you've put up when it's not so late.

I can see what you mean about issues arising from dog parks (some of the dogs we see there really aren't social at all), the reason why I keep her on lead unless she's contained with another dog I know.

I guess the reason I take her to dog parks is probably more my stupid sentimental reasons! I love seeing how much enjoyment she gets from have a good play with another dog, and I also don't mind the social part of it!

I also wasn't aware that it could be quite easy to control her drive with other dogs, which I guess is why I haven't done so already.

[MissMaddy]

Also wanted to add, does anyone have recommendations of professional trainers in Melbourne (preferably near Camberwell).

I've contacted 4paws and will be going to have a look there, but was also going to contact Erny about the training on Erny's website. Any other recommendations? I think she'd probably do best in training that utilises her prey drive.

[Cosmolo]

We consult in Camberwell too- and often use our own dogs to set up dog to dog situations in a controlled way when appropriate. Training in drive can be great- but you do need to know how to do it properly so that you are really improving the dogs behaviour, and learn how to inhibit drive and/ or teach the dog that certain things are not prey objects when required.

[BrunoBella]

No problems.

I felt the same way about dog parks and still walk around the outside of them watching the people socialise but I only have to look at the difference between Bella and Bruno to know I have made the right choice . You can still play with other dogs but it should be with trustworthy dogs.

You can also get more dogs yourself and start your own dog park in your backyard

Have fun

bp

[MonElite]

Its unfortunate but this is how dog agressive dogs get created. This sort of play is asking for trouble. YOur dog is bullying other dogs and in return the other dogs (like the dobe) reteliate to protect themselves.

I suggest seek professional tuition and join a dog trianing club in order to get better control over your dog. You should not be allowing your dog bully other dogs, and id that means not letting her off lead - so be it.

[Lablover]

Simply this dog sounds untrained and has learnt fun, solo (without you).

Training takes time, knowledge and consistency. It is fun fun fun too.

[MissMaddy]

Thanks for all the replies, Cosmolo I will have to contact you after Christmas is over to try and organise something with you.

BP- trust me, if I was in a situation to get another dog, I would! But at the moment it's not a possibility.

Myzska- I wasn't sure as to the effect this was having on the dobe (and it's really only become a problem recently), but I do keep her on the lead and away from her, and only allow her to play with other dogs who'll keep her in line or who play differently so it doesn't become an issue. I just don't understand how the dobe used to bully her (so she kinda taught her the behaviour), but now freaks out at play that's nowhere near as rough at it used to be when they were younger (and neither got freaked out then).

And she has been going to training at a club since 10 weeks old, and plays really well with the other dogs there (none off lead). She's also doing really well with her obedience, although I'm not happy with the instructors, which is why I've been looking into a new place to train, hence my request for suggestions!

[MissMaddy]

Thanks lablover, but she's not untrained. She's not my first dog that I've trained, and she actually won an obedience class in a recent fun day and got top scoring bitch there, so she's definitely not untrained.

I've just never had a dog that is so hard to get her focus on me (although when she does, like at the fun day, she works superbly), hence why I've asked for help, and suggestions on where is most appropriate to receive this help.

[Lablover]

Thanks lablover, but she's not untrained. She's not my first dog that I've trained, and she actually won an obedience class in a recent fun day and got top scoring bitch there, so she's definitely not untrained.

I've just never had a dog that is so hard to get her focus on me (although when she does, like at the fun day, she works superbly), hence why I've asked for help, and suggestions on where is most appropriate to receive this help.

Why do you think she focuses on you at obedience but not at off lead parks? Will she recall to you, under all distractions?

[MissMaddy]

I think it's probably because I put more effort into it lablover when at obedience, because in my mind (and I've also put it in hers now), obedience is for work, park is for play. I still do train her at the park, but currently under minimal distraction until I get her really focused there, so it will be easier to get and keep her focus under distraction. She's also a lot better and way more focused when all the other dogs are on lead and under effective control of their owners. She does get easily bored at training though, and I usually just take extra play breaks when I can feel her getting bored, but am still not happy where I've been going (their reply to my issues on keeping focus are that my food isn't good enough and that's it!).

No, she won't recall under all distractions, and is rarely off lead unless I have a very good view of who's coming, as she's got a great recall when no other dogs are around (I've had to experiment a bit with my tone to achieve this, but we're finally getting there).. It's not good around other dogs, so I don't really have her off lead around other dogs unless it's an enclosed area.

This focus issue (and the chasing stuff) is the reason why I'm going to have a look at a few other places to train after Christmas (and probably get a consult from Cosmol asap), especially one which will help me to utilise her prey drive, but also stop it when I want/need to.

[BrunoBella]

Drive training will definitely help with focus. Bella will focus on me completely when I'm doing these exercises.

I have resorted to cheating on the recall - currently not possible with both my dogs under distraction but good without - and am buying a remote training device for both my two along with Steve's training course for this.

You will be amazed at the results from a little bit of work.

BP

[PAX]

I think it's probably because I put more effort into it lablover when at obedience, because in my mind (and I've also put it in hers now), obedience is for work, park is for play.

Training obedience should be for fun, she should know that by doing as you ask, the result is fun. At the park you should ask for some easy obedience work in order to get the fun stuff.

easily bored at training though, and I usually just take extra play breaks when I can feel her getting bored,

You are rewarding her for switching off, you should be having a break and playing when she is at her best.

[dee lee]

This thread is REALLY interesting. Miss maddy you have described my dog's behaviour to a T. Drives you nuts doesnt it when the only advice you get from a trainer is to get better treats?! I've come to the conclusion some dogs are harder to get to focus and obviously we are both compounding the prob somehow.

I gave up on the park a couple of months ago after my (nearly 12months old) dog started bullying other dogs. Funnily enough i had an identical situation with a boxer as you have with the doberman- the bullying mentor becomes the bullied. I used to LOVE taking my dog to offlead parks but i've changed my mind now after the influence it has had on my dog's behaviour and wish i had never taken her.

[dee lee]

Oh, and my dog will only "play" like you describe with dogs who are submissive to her, or rather those that dont dominate her- (mostly dogs her age or a bit younger)- it sounds like your dog is the same.

Can anyone elaborate why? Is it just because they are easy target and the bullying is enjoyable or could it have to do with some kind of fear aggression?

Edited December 21, 2007 by deelee2

[Erny]

I've contacted 4paws and will be going to have a look there, but was also going to contact Erny about the training on Erny's website.

Hi MissMaddy ..... feel free to contact me should you wish. Trish at "4Paws" - presuming you mean Four Paws K9 Training? (there is another place which has a name that is similar and can be confused) is also one I'd recommend. Cosmolo might be a bit more local to you though.