Border Collie Skin Problems?

[Mystiqview]

I agree with Inspecter Rex.

The list of symptoms can be a number of things, and the only SAFE way to the ROOT cause is to take the dog to a vet, preferably a specialist vet and get the appropriate tests done.

While many of use antihystomines on our dogs for mild complaints, as the dosage is based for humans, I would still be getting some professional advise on what the dose should be.... Some of those products listed, are not just straight Anti-hystomine, but also contain other drugs..

Edit spelling

Edited December 23, 2007 by Mystiqview

[InspectorRex]

Thanks Mystiqview- you cannot muck about with these types of health issues. A Vet is like a GP- if it is out of their field of expertise they should be referriing you on asap

[sas]

S. Mange isn't always detected on skin scrapings. They can still treat for it if they wish with Revolution. Would also probably want to give 1000 of Vit C and 1 x Zinc per day to boost the immune system.

Allergy testing (intra dermal) is not straight forward, it costs a fortune and typically comes back saying your dog is allergic to 101 different things, the desenitizing injections work in around 20% of cases and by working I mean about a 25-30% reduction of the problem.

Anti-histimines are fine for dogs and many Vets reccomend human ones. The only unfortunate thing is they don't seem to work in that many dogs.

I know of Greyhounds with Thyroid issues that are treated with Milk Thistle - 2 months on/2 months off.

Eukanuba has a kibble for Sensitive Skin, we are currently using this on Dante for his Allergy issues, it is Salmon based. Some premium brand kibbles not targeted for sensitive skins can over heat some dogs as well.

Here are some products that we have tried that you may be interested in:

http://www.animalitch.com.au/Small.htm - Stinks to high heaven, but did good.

We've used products from this Australian company which we also thought were good: http://www.holisticanimalmedicines.com/

Colloidal Silver works well on some conditions: http://www.colloidalsilvergel.com/order_%2...silver_gel.html

Good Luck.

Edited December 25, 2007 by sas

[InspectorRex]

I would not use Revolution on any Collie breed Unless the dog has had the DNA Test for Ivermectin Sensitivity and is "Clear"

Revolution contains a Mectin based drug that can be fatal if used on a dog that is Ivermection Sensitive( eg Rough and Smooth Collies, Border Collies , Aussie Shepherds, Shelties, Sughthounds, Akitas to name a few)

[sas]

Ah ok, I wasn't aware of the Collie sensitivity. Revolution is the only one I'm familiar with for treating for a possible Mange condition.

[Mystiqview]

Catsmother,

What are you bathing the dog in??

Some dog wash products can cause that too. I have used some that are way too harsh on skin and coat.. And believe it or not, one of them is the Fido's Oatmeal shampoo which is designed for sensitive skin.

Dog wash products that use Teatree oil are commonly known to cause skin irritations as Teatree is very drying and takes out the natural oil in the dogs coat.

With this rain, the grasses have come into full growtime.. I would look at any new grasses that have sprung up.. Particularly paspalum (Bahia grass)

Found this flowering calender: Bahia grass

There are always some general allergic tests you can do at home:

Diet (for dry food people mainly):

1) Get rid of all treats, food scraps etc:

2) Feed only your dry food for 2 weeks.

3) add one of your treats for 2 weeks - reaction/no reaction? reaction.. identified cause. No: reaction - go to step 4

4) Remove first treat and give second treat for two weeks - reaction/no reaction?? Reaction - identified cause. No reaction - repeat steps 3/4 until you have gone through all diet stuff

Pollens: Do a thorough search of your lawns, folia where you walk the dog etc, off leash park.. People often mistake the obvious pollens (ones that glare in your face like wattle) to be the cause.. Look for the unobvious ones.. such as grasses this even can be grass clippings.

Chemical:

Check what chemicals you use to clean your house/kennels.. The dogs may be reacting to this. Stop using those chemicals in favour of something else.. Elbow grease and mild detergent for example

As previously mentioned, check what you are washing your dog in. Conditioners can be just a prime source as shampoos. Also deodorizers can cause allergies.

Animal:

Fleas, mites, mozzies etc many dogs develop or have flea allergies. It may only take one flea in severe cases. Mozzies also can cause irritations. For example: We have a horse here that has to be covered as he is allergic to mozzies..

Hormonal:

Can be hormonal imbalance. Especially in fertile females and developing males. Desexed animals may also suffer from hormonal imbalance.

As someone else has said, there can be 101 different things a dog may be allergic to. IF you go to the vet, they will get you to do the same thing as what I have just listed to rule out those common possible causes.

Vets do recommend the use of human antihistamines. However, as they are prescribed for humans and not dogs, you have to be careful what dose you give them and what the active ingredient is. Many antihistamines contain other drugs which may not be safe for dogs. Like humans, the use of antihistamines is good for the short term, but long term use is not healthy and can be detromental to the dog.

Allergies are not fun. The danger is not getting proper advice and recognition.

Allergies can escalate very quickly. For example I have been mildly allergic to seafood. Vomiting, and bad headaches and the feeling as if someone had hit me over the head with a hammer.

The other week I took two small ites of a chicken sushi contaminated with crabmeat.. I landed in hospital in full Anaphylaxis. The allergy had escalated dramatically. I now have to carry an Epipen - pure adrenaline. $110 or there abouts per pen which only lasts 12 months... cheap if you have to use it to save your life.. but if you avoid it.. While I was in hospital, there was a child in the bed next to me who on his first contact with peanuts had a headache.. On his second. he was in a worse situation to me.. He very nearly died.

[PooMother]

Hi Mystiqview

I did wonder about all the rain etc. Vet still says all is fine and as he isnt scratching, not red and sore is eating well etc hasnt reccommended any meds. My daughter thinks the pup has a mullet :-) as the rough is so long compared to the rest of his coat.

I wash him in Squirt Shampoo for Puppies. He has only had 2 baths since we got him once a couple of weeks after he came home (was way too cold before then) and just this past week.

I do use Adavantage on him, if this was the problem would he not lose hair from where it was applied?

He is a very happy boy just this wretched hair loss....thankful he isnt all itchy and scratching as that would be terrible for the little guy in this weather.

Catsmother,

What are you bathing the dog in??

Some dog wash products can cause that too. I have used some that are way too harsh on skin and coat.. And believe it or not, one of them is the Fido's Oatmeal shampoo which is designed for sensitive skin.

Dog wash products that use Teatree oil are commonly known to cause skin irritations as Teatree is very drying and takes out the natural oil in the dogs coat.

With this rain, the grasses have come into full growtime.. I would look at any new grasses that have sprung up.. Particularly paspalum (Bahia grass)

Found this flowering calender: Bahia grass

There are always some general allergic tests you can do at home:

Diet (for dry food people mainly):

1) Get rid of all treats, food scraps etc:

2) Feed only your dry food for 2 weeks.

3) add one of your treats for 2 weeks - reaction/no reaction? reaction.. identified cause. No: reaction - go to step 4

4) Remove first treat and give second treat for two weeks - reaction/no reaction?? Reaction - identified cause. No reaction - repeat steps 3/4 until you have gone through all diet stuff

Pollens: Do a thorough search of your lawns, folia where you walk the dog etc, off leash park.. People often mistake the obvious pollens (ones that glare in your face like wattle) to be the cause.. Look for the unobvious ones.. such as grasses this even can be grass clippings.

Chemical:

Check what chemicals you use to clean your house/kennels.. The dogs may be reacting to this. Stop using those chemicals in favour of something else.. Elbow grease and mild detergent for example

As previously mentioned, check what you are washing your dog in. Conditioners can be just a prime source as shampoos. Also deodorizers can cause allergies.

Animal:

Fleas, mites, mozzies etc many dogs develop or have flea allergies. It may only take one flea in severe cases. Mozzies also can cause irritations. For example: We have a horse here that has to be covered as he is allergic to mozzies..

Hormonal:

Can be hormonal imbalance. Especially in fertile females and developing males. Desexed animals may also suffer from hormonal imbalance.

As someone else has said, there can be 101 different things a dog may be allergic to. IF you go to the vet, they will get you to do the same thing as what I have just listed to rule out those common possible causes.

Vets do recommend the use of human antihistamines. However, as they are prescribed for humans and not dogs, you have to be careful what dose you give them and what the active ingredient is. Many antihistamines contain other drugs which may not be safe for dogs. Like humans, the use of antihistamines is good for the short term, but long term use is not healthy and can be detromental to the dog.

Allergies are not fun. The danger is not getting proper advice and recognition.

Allergies can escalate very quickly. For example I have been mildly allergic to seafood. Vomiting, and bad headaches and the feeling as if someone had hit me over the head with a hammer.

The other week I took two small ites of a chicken sushi contaminated with crabmeat.. I landed in hospital in full Anaphylaxis. The allergy had escalated dramatically. I now have to carry an Epipen - pure adrenaline. $110 or there abouts per pen which only lasts 12 months... cheap if you have to use it to save your life.. but if you avoid it.. While I was in hospital, there was a child in the bed next to me who on his first contact with peanuts had a headache.. On his second. he was in a worse situation to me.. He very nearly died.

[Mystiqview]

Any shampoo can cause skin irritations. I was given samples of that shampoo ages ago. As I have a hydrobath, it is not suitable, so gave it away. I have a friend who cannot use Fido's where I can. When I use the Pine Oil from Aussipooch, it dries the coat of my border collies.

It may be hormonal given the age of the puppy, however it may be something else. If you vet is not concerned, but you think the hair loss etc is getting worse, I would seek a second opinion.

Depending on the lines of your border collie, there are some lines who are known for auto-immune disorders. It may be vaccination related as well, as vaccinations in some dogs are known to cause reactions.

Also if you use any worming product containing Ivemectin, there are issues there as well as Collies as previously mentioned are known to be sensitive to this drug. The only way to know for sure is to do the MDR1 DNA test.

[PooMother]

Any shampoo can cause skin irritations. I was given samples of that shampoo ages ago. As I have a hydrobath, it is not suitable, so gave it away. I have a friend who cannot use Fido's where I can. When I use the Pine Oil from Aussipooch, it dries the coat of my border collies.

It may be hormonal given the age of the puppy, however it may be something else. If you vet is not concerned, but you think the hair loss etc is getting worse, I would seek a second opinion.

Depending on the lines of your border collie, there are some lines who are known for auto-immune disorders. It may be vaccination related as well, as vaccinations in some dogs are known to cause reactions.

Also if you use any worming product containing Ivemectin, there are issues there as well as Collies as previously mentioned are known to be sensitive to this drug. The only way to know for sure is to do the MDR1 DNA test.

[PooMother]

Any shampoo can cause skin irritations. I was given samples of that shampoo ages ago. As I have a hydrobath, it is not suitable, so gave it away. I have a friend who cannot use Fido's where I can. When I use the Pine Oil from Aussipooch, it dries the coat of my border collies.

It may be hormonal given the age of the puppy, however it may be something else. If you vet is not concerned, but you think the hair loss etc is getting worse, I would seek a second opinion.

Depending on the lines of your border collie, there are some lines who are known for auto-immune disorders. It may be vaccination related as well, as vaccinations in some dogs are known to cause reactions.

Also if you use any worming product containing Ivemectin, there are issues there as well as Collies as previously mentioned are known to be sensitive to this drug. The only way to know for sure is to do the MDR1 DNA test.

Oops not sure I did that right still tryingto master this Forum uploding posting thing.

Are there any shampoos others would recommend so that I cansee if it is the shampoo? Also what is the DNA test and where do I get that done please?

Im afraid IO dont know much about the lines give me cats and Im ok but dogs..... I just relied on the CL, TNS and CEA tests being negative didnt give a thought to anything else. Lots to learn.

[PooMother]

Any shampoo can cause skin irritations. I was given samples of that shampoo ages ago. As I have a hydrobath, it is not suitable, so gave it away. I have a friend who cannot use Fido's where I can. When I use the Pine Oil from Aussipooch, it dries the coat of my border collies.

It may be hormonal given the age of the puppy, however it may be something else. If you vet is not concerned, but you think the hair loss etc is getting worse, I would seek a second opinion.

Depending on the lines of your border collie, there are some lines who are known for auto-immune disorders. It may be vaccination related as well, as vaccinations in some dogs are known to cause reactions.

Also if you use any worming product containing Ivemectin, there are issues there as well as Collies as previously mentioned are known to be sensitive to this drug. The only way to know for sure is to do the MDR1 DNA test.

Ah just googled it, Gribbles Australia does it?

[PooMother]

Any shampoo can cause skin irritations. I was given samples of that shampoo ages ago. As I have a hydrobath, it is not suitable, so gave it away. I have a friend who cannot use Fido's where I can. When I use the Pine Oil from Aussipooch, it dries the coat of my border collies.

It may be hormonal given the age of the puppy, however it may be something else. If you vet is not concerned, but you think the hair loss etc is getting worse, I would seek a second opinion.

Depending on the lines of your border collie, there are some lines who are known for auto-immune disorders. It may be vaccination related as well, as vaccinations in some dogs are known to cause reactions.

Also if you use any worming product containing Ivemectin, there are issues there as well as Collies as previously mentioned are known to be sensitive to this drug. The only way to know for sure is to do the MDR1 DNA test.

Sorry for the mulitple posts. With this test do Gribbles just ask you to swab the cheek area with a brush, allow it to dry etc? Reason I am asking is that I have some swab brushes left over here that I had sent to me from Gribbles when I was DNA testing my cats for PKD thought maybe I could use those and send it off.

[Mystiqview]

Catsmother,

You may have to check with Gribbles to see if the swabs you have would be suitable.

I have done the CL, TNS and CEA testing with my dogs, and different labs have different collection procedures.

[PooMother]

Catsmother,

You may have to check with Gribbles to see if the swabs you have would be suitable.

I have done the CL, TNS and CEA testing with my dogs, and different labs have different collection procedures.

He is clear for the above but he is to be neutered anyway so be a carrier for one to me is not a concern (well so I have been told) The MDR1 worries me so I have sent an email to Gribbles and asked for a test kit in any case just to be sure. Thank you so much for your help I really appreciate it.

[Mystiqview]

My point with the above testing is different labs have different testing protocols.

When I had one of my bitches tested for CEA, it was with Optigen in the USA, they wanted blood. GSS who do the CEA test now do it by buccal swabs.

My TNS/CL tests have all been done through Alan Wilton, who also likes blood. Those who have CL done with GSS take buccal swabs.

I do not know if the swabs have a shelf life or if they are precoated with something for specific tests. That is where you will have to check with Gribbles for their procedure.

Edited December 26, 2007 by Mystiqview

[InspectorRex]

Genetic Science Services do the buccal sawb for MDR1 here , costs about $60 but money well spent as if the dog is MDR Affected or Carrier there is a huge list of other drugs that cannot be given to that dog.

Feel free to PM your email addy and I will send you some info and links on this

[stormie]

If you go see a Dermatologist, they usually run through a few different things first before going into the skin testing. Ours said that we would need to treat for scabies first, every 2 weeks for 6 weeks with Revolution. Milbemicin (Interceptor) has also shown to treat scabies but at a higher dose than on the pack. Fleas and other insects also need to be dealt with.

Next you need to treat for possible fungal infections, which can either be done with very regular malaseb washes, or by prescription drugs.

Finally failing all that, you need to rule out food allergies by going on a totally new protein and carb source for 12 weeks.

Failing all that, skin testing can then be done.

Not sure all dermatologists work the same, but its somewhere to start.

[Flaves]

If you are going to go the antihistamine route you should start with the old style like polaramine first.

My vet said that due to the extreme dry many dogs are having a hayfever type reaction to the dirt etc.

Good luck and i hope you find the cause.

[Clyde]

I've found both Squirt and Fidos to be disastrous for dogs with sensitive skin, Fidos also gave me bad eczema. Try Aloveen for now as it will at least soothe the dog until you get to the bottom of the problem. Aloveen is the orginal oatmeal/aloe shampoo and IMO no other product copy comes close.