Border Collie Skin Problems?

[Risyntira]

One of my puppy buyers is having problems with her BC, the vets have seen her and have done several skin scrapings but can not find anything wrong.

"Secret" is 10 months old and her problems are, undercoat loss, scratching and nibbling and she is baldy all over her sides, stomach and topline as well as scabby sores.

It sounded like a couple of classic signs of Hypothyroidism, but her owner said that she was very happy, outgoing and energetic.

Then I read a thread on DOL talking about "Fox mange" I instantly thought of Secret as she swims in their dam almost everyday, so I searched for Sarcoptic mange and contacted her owner and she thought the same until her vet tested her and still couldn't find anything

They have tried Malaseb, but her skin went red, they've also tried Alph Keri oil, but they had trouble getting it onto her skin

I would put her coat loss down to her season 4 months ago (she was 6 months and 3 days old then, and it lasted one day, and she had a phantom pregnancy) she is still dropping coat. ;)

She has stopped nibbling and scratching and coat is slowly growing back as she had a cortisone shot and antibiotics the skin has healed.

The next step is a trip to the dermatologist if the problem re-occurs.

Has anyone seen anything like this? Help needed.

Thanks.

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Yes My Golden Retriever and Laffi's Aussie Shepard are both going through the same thing. They have been suffering from around mid Nov and we believe it to be an allergic reaction to something environmental, pollen or grass. We are both doing the following and have seen some improvement even though it is not a cure all.

Phenergan - daily

Fish Oil - daily

Zinc - daily

Evening Primrose Oil - daily

Kelp - every second day

Bathed with the EQyss on Saturday

EQyss Spray

Coat king rake every 3 weeks

Apple Cidar Vinegar in water

Advocate once a mth

Advantix once a mth

Plus Benson is currently on Prednisone and Antibitotics from the vet for 10 days.

We both will be trialing some herbal tablets shortly and will let you know how they go as we understand they may signifiicantly reduce the allergy.

[Risyntira]

Hi,

Thanks for that FTPB.

The vet thinks it is an inhaled antigen such as pollen causing the problem. A kind of dog hayfever but instead of the problem being in the sinuses like in people it is in the skin. ;)

[Dogsfevr]

We actually get a number of clients who board there dogs for a few weeks to see what happens.Many have figured they have spent so much money with no result they try an away situation .In all cases it has been an issue with either the clients home or where they walk.In the odd case it has been a family member denying they where feeding treats but had been ..

Personally i would be stopping the dam swimming for a good period simply because if she has sores etc it is just being reinfected eith yuck water.

Will she be sterilized?? She could have a hormonal issue..

I am presuming there feeding the same diet you suggested??

Are they using any spot ons??

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Yep same here - atopic dermatitis.

[Risyntira]

They planned on showing her, so I don't think they wanted to desex her and as far as I know, they are still feeding the same diet.

[Gottalovealab]

Maybe it would be best to get an allergy test done?? Could possibly be something in the air, or the water for that matter.

[Cavandra]

Any Grevillia or Bottle Brush trees around? These will send the dogs bald especially where the tree branches brush the dog, if no contact the pollen will still affect them.

[Cavandra]

Phenergan - daily

Fish Oil - daily

Zinc - daily

Evening Primrose Oil - daily

Kelp - every second day

Bathed with the EQyss on Saturday

EQyss Spray

Coat king rake every 3 weeks

Apple Cidar Vinegar in water

Advocate once a mth

Advantix once a mth

Plus Benson is currently on Prednisone and Antibitotics from the vet for 10 days.

We both will be trialing some herbal tablets shortly and will let you know how they go as we understand they may signifiicantly reduce the allergy.

Have you had his thyroid checked?

Is there a reason that you are using phenergen rather than another antihistimine? Phenergen I usually only use on insect stings when their whole head blows up, as it works quickly & it makes them sleepy........I dont use it for other things due to it making them sleepy..........Have you tried all the other products like Telfast, polmarine, claratyne, periactin (makes them starving)

[ashka1]

I am having a problem that sounds very similar with a Newfoundland, it was suggested by the vets as an allergy either enviormental of inhaled, another thing mentioned was a zinc dificency can cause these symptoms but with a thickening of the skin also. But his skin had not thickend so we ruled that out.

We put him on a fish based protien (eaglepack, ) and antihistamines and antibiotics for 10 days. I added zinc to his food and he has always had fish oils and omega 3 and 6, kelp, brewers yeast etc. I bath him in vetadine, an iodine based wash that can also be used as a rinse and left in the coat, and spray the bad spots with Betadine each day and we have a made great difference and he has heaps of coat again but I have not fully got rid of the problems, he has itchy days now and then. I have to bath him at least once a week or he does tend to scrtatch more and has a few bad spots still.

Cavandra, I have wondered about giving him antihistamines daily, on going untill he is fully clear , have you seen any adverse effects doing this? what dose would you give a 65kg dog as an ongoing thing?

[Cavandra]

Cavandra, I have wondered about giving him antihistamines daily, on going untill he is fully clear , have you seen any adverse effects doing this? what dose would you give a 65kg dog as an ongoing thing?

No I havent personally heard of any reactions etc..........i only know that one will work for one dog & not for another, sometimes you have to try each one out til you find the one that works for your dog. I would follow the instructions on the packet for a dog of that size he is an "adult" human...........

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Have you had his thyroid checked?

Is there a reason that you are using phenergen rather than another antihistimine? Phenergen I usually only use on insect stings when their whole head blows up, as it works quickly & it makes them sleepy........I dont use it for other things due to it making them sleepy..........Have you tried all the other products like Telfast, polmarine, claratyne, periactin (makes them starving)

No I haven't - what are the symptoms? if you know of hand that is!

I had phenergan at home so I thought I would give that to him as some one suggested it was ok to use for dogs on this forum. Could I try Zyrtec?

Edited December 19, 2007 by First Time Puppy Owner

[Risyntira]

Thanks guys.

I have sent this link to Secret's owner

[peigirl]

Cavandra, I have wondered about giving him antihistamines daily, on going untill he is fully clear , have you seen any adverse effects doing this? what dose would you give a 65kg dog as an ongoing thing?

No I havent personally heard of any reactions etc..........i only know that one will work for one dog & not for another, sometimes you have to try each one out til you find the one that works for your dog. I would follow the instructions on the packet for a dog of that size he is an "adult" human...........

Not quite Cavandra. Dogs metabolise antihistamine differently to humans and often they need a stronger dose. Mine suffers from atopic dermatitis aswell and gets two claratyne per day.

ETA he is 24kg.

Edited December 19, 2007 by peigirl

[Cavandra]

No I haven't - what are the symptoms? if you know of hand that is!

I had phenergan at home so I thought I would give that to him as some one suggested it was ok to use for dogs on this forum. Could I try Zyrtec?

Chronic bad skin & hair loss are symptoms, along with weight gain, weight loss, sometimes lethargy, hormone problems which cause infertility problems etc...........It is hard to diagnose, as it gets mistaken for other things alot in Australia. Vets dont think of it .........It is a blood test, but certain elements can affect the results, like being on cortisone for example!

I am unsure about Zyrtec, I dont know anyone who has used it. I usulaly say Claratyne due to teh home brand equivalent being far cheaper for people....Guardian Chemists have the home brand one.......But as I said what may work for one dog doesnt seem to work for another, so trial & error I guess.........Many Vets tell people to use Telfast.

[becks]

I would put her coat loss down to her season 4 months ago (she was 6 months and 3 days old then, and it lasted one day, and she had a phantom pregnancy) she is still dropping coat

Has she had a thyroid test?

She had a season that lasted a day?? Is this normal for her line for a first season? I would be looking at things that affect the sex hormones.

[Risyntira]

I asked about thyroids, and having her tested, but she told me they were no other symptoms, and the vet said it wouldn't be thyroids.

Her lines are not known to have a one-day season. Her mother has her very first season at 13 months which lasted just under three weeks, Her sister is yet to have a season (only 10 months old)

[Dogsfevr]

We have used a product called "Dong Quai " on bitches with season issues with no issues at all except helping the problems

Dong quai is used primarily to treat menstrual complaints, such as menstrual pain and scanty menstruation. Studies have shown that dong quai is useful in treating other gynecologic complaints as well, including premenstrual syndrome (PMS), and menstrual problems such as cramping and irregular cycles.

Though dong quai does not actually contain steroids or hormone molecules, one of its constituents is coumarin. Coumarin is most widely known for its use in preventing blood clotting, but constituents related to it may have numerous actions. Coumarin compounds have an anti-inflammatory and antispasmodic effect, especially on the uterus.

Dong quai also contains ferulic acid, a pain reliever and muscle relaxer. Indeed, the herb is often used to treat painful menstrual cramps or other cases of uterine spasms. Oddly enough, several studies have shown that dong quai acts as a muscle relaxant overall, but before it relaxes the uterus, it stimulates the uterus briefly. The uterus is a muscle, and when dong quai stimulates it, its tone improves and it becomes tight and contracts more readily.

All muscles function better when they are well toned, and the uterus is no exception. A well-toned, strong, healthy uterus is less prone to cramps and muscle spasms. In addition to relaxing the uterus, ferulic acid also may relax the heart muscles, lower blood pressure, and calm cardiac arrhythmias (a variation in the normal rhythm of the heartbeat).

Studies also cite dong quai's effectiveness in treating allergies and respiratory complaints. Several chemical agents in dong quai may have an antihistamine and antiserotonin effect. Histamine, serotonin, and other substances are released from blood cells in response to something that irritates the body -- such as pollen, dust, chemical fumes, or animal dander -- and causes the symptoms we associate with allergies. An antihistamine curbs these symptoms, thus explaining dong quai's reported anti-allergy effects."

If you google it does list the pros/cons that everyone should be aware of with any product prior too but we have used this highly successfully..

[PooMother]

Hi

I have just logged on to see if I could find a link (if any) on reactions to vaccinations and voila here is someone with very symptoms to what I was going to ask about

Hubbys BC is 4months old, entire and is vaccinated. his vaccination - 2nd I noticed hair loss from underneath. His rough is still considerable however he looks like he is going bald (patchy) His appetite is good, not itchy or scrathing and very active and happy. Coat has also become dry.

I thought losing winter coat possibly but am now unsure as I said rough is long and fluffy and part of the top is still long and fluffy. At vets Tuesday and he says all is fine.

Diet is Eaglepack, chicken pieces, lamb / mutton flaps etc. Im also at a loss

[InspectorRex]

Firstly i would be going for the thyroid test , then if no result referral to a Veterinary Dermatologist for a full range of intra-dermal skin tests to find out exactly was the poor BC is allergic too as airborne pollens can cause Atopic Dermatitis/Atopy- do a google search on this , there is heaps of info on it.