From Fatty To Fit

[kja]

Our 5+ year old Ridgie is fat. We know it and have been working on it for a while. The biggest hurdle we have is that DH can't not overfeed her. She's currently on diet doggie biscuits and we had her on the right path...then I went on holidays. I weighed her today and she's up .6 kg ... again. We seem to be losing and regaining the same kilo over and over!

I know my hubby too well and he will NOT stop with the treats, though I am very hopeful that he will continue to reduce them. This is just what it is. I also like to give her some chicken necks or wings or a marrow bone once or twice a week, but I don't think that's a big deal as I keep the amounts small - she's not a huge fan of the raw chicken but likes one or two wings or necks now and again.

We are also doing more exercise each day, but slowly building that up as she has had serious joint problems ever since she was a baby so each time she has a hiatus, we have to start over.

OK, so now that I'm done whinging, here's my questions...when DH feeds her during the day with scraps, how much should I further reduce her dry food AND how much dry food do I need to give her to meet her nutritional requirements? I've read the bags but I'm still confused.

[sidoney]

Change her treats. Most dogs enjoy carrots, broccoli stems, and so on.

My sister had a fat Ridgy and got her weight down by replacing some of the food with grated carrot.

Much better to feed the dog with proper food and not cut down the proper food because of scraps ... the scraps won't have everything the dog needs, particularly depending on what they are. Let hubby know he is affecting the dog's health and give him healthy low kj treats (vegies and fruit) to give the dog instead.

[kja]

Change her treats. Most dogs enjoy carrots, broccoli stems, and so on.

My sister had a fat Ridgy and got her weight down by replacing some of the food with grated carrot.

Much better to feed the dog with proper food and not cut down the proper food because of scraps ... the scraps won't have everything the dog needs, particularly depending on what they are. Let hubby know he is affecting the dog's health and give him healthy low kj treats (vegies and fruit) to give the dog instead.

Sorry, I forgot that I do also give her green beans (she hates carrot so far)...I'm just not sure how much dry food she needs to have to actually meet her daily requirements. I don't want to reduce her dry food below that point. Her dry food should meet her requirements but I thought that the scraps etc that she also gets need to be balanced by reducing the amount of dry food intake so long as it doesn't drop below the nutritional requirement amount...

So maybe I just have the one question: how much dry food does she need to meet this requirement?

[westiemum]

Change her treats. Most dogs enjoy carrots, broccoli stems, and so on.

My sister had a fat Ridgy and got her weight down by replacing some of the food with grated carrot.

Much better to feed the dog with proper food and not cut down the proper food because of scraps ... the scraps won't have everything the dog needs, particularly depending on what they are. Let hubby know he is affecting the dog's health and give him healthy low kj treats (vegies and fruit) to give the dog instead.

Hi Sidoney,

Yep kja - Sidoneys right - my guys love raw carrot - Sometimes just given striaght out of the fridge whole or cut up for variety - and that's their treat - apart from the occasional KraMar Supa Naturals dried chicken breast strips - they don't have any nasties in them and are very low in fat - 2% - from Woolies (haven't seen them anywhere else) - only down-side is they are a bit expensive. But they are the only ones I've found where I'm confident they don't have any c*ap in them. I'm guessing they are simply slow-roasted chicken breast, dried out in the oven over a long period of time at a low temperature - so I think you could probably make something similar yourself, through a bit of trial and error if you wanted to - although I haven't tried it - yet!!

As to the dry food, my vet says that most of them, even the so called 'low calorie' stuff is still too high calorie for some older, over weight dogs. He believes there are some dogs (not all) who will never lose weight effectively on dry food and my boy is one of them. (And like most vets he sells the stuff so is really doing himself out of business by saying so!!) I had terrible trouble getting my porky westies weight down until in utter frustration and with vet agreement and supervision I took him off all regular commercial dog food and switched him to a barf diet with very carefully controlled portions.. As in humans, I believe this is the key to long-term successful weight loss and control (The studies show it clearly in humans and I can't see why it would be any different in pooches). This regime has been so successful that the vet now recommends my diet to his other porky pooches!! (As I've said he's a 'weight nazi' in the nicest possible way - and I'm really grateful that he is!).

So, as much as people find dry food quick and convenient, once you get into the habit of feeding a barf diet I'll be surprised if you ever want to switch back. And the bonus is that I find it much cheaper than premium commercial food and my guys wolf it down!!

Anyway - sorry - I know that's probably not what you were wanting to hear - but its certainly worked for us.

Hope it helps.

Cheers,

Westiemum

[kja]

So, as much as people find dry food quick and convenient, once you get into the habit of feeding a barf diet I'll be surprised if you ever want to switch back. And the bonus is that I find it much cheaper than premium commercial food and my guys wolf it down!!

Anyway - sorry - I know that's probably not what you were wanting to hear - but its certainly worked for us.

Hope it helps.

Cheers,

Westiemum

We've thought about this but I'm just not sure it's a viable option for our family. We are remote and meat etc is expensive and some things are not easily available. We've been talking to our breeder about this as she is raising this litter on an all natural diet and we've come to the conclusion that going the commercial route will work again for us - but we are still considering and searching, nothing's set in stone or forever!

I guess I'm not understanding how everyone is figuring out how much dry dog food is the minimum to provide complete daily nutrition. I get substituting veggies and the like to keep bulk and reduce calories, but I don't want to reduce the dry so much that she isn't getting what she needs.

[Poodle wrangler]

What's on the bag is a guide only.

You can safely cut back dry food by half ( YEP!) if your dog is putting on weight.

For a dog with joint problems overnutrition is worse than undernutrition.

There's much disagreement over correct nutrition for dogs, but keep it simple and worry about getting the weight off as a priority.

Being overweight puts more stress on joints and causes increased pain .

Shortens your dog's life span.

If feeding raw foods, avoid fatty bones (eg bone marrow, brisket) and choose lean chicken carcasses, roo meat etc.

Mashed cooked pumpkin is filling, but with few calories for a dog.

Does the OH realise that he is causing the dog unnecessary pain by having him overweight?

Killing him with 'kindness' ?

Have you tried adding a joint supplement e.g. Joint Guard, Glucosamine & Chrondritin as well as either fish oil or flaxseed oil?

Losing weight is no.1 to help him, though!

[PAX]

Make her daily meal up in the morning and let your OH feed her treats out of that. If it gets to the end of the day and there is nothing left, thats what she gets.

It is the only way to watch her daily intake, tell your OH no cheating.

[kja]

Thanks - that's great on the cutting the dry by half or so...gives me a ballpark to work with.

Yes, Darling Husband knows that he's hurting her...at least he knows it intellectually. Unfortunately, food is love and fat is love in his psyche and we are working on it. This is a deep seated issue and one that won't be resolved overnight, unfortunately. But we are working on it!

Yup, supplements - check! We're working closely with Murdoch in Perth on all of her health problems (she's got allergies as well, poor thing)!

[westiemum]

So, as much as people find dry food quick and convenient, once you get into the habit of feeding a barf diet I'll be surprised if you ever want to switch back. And the bonus is that I find it much cheaper than premium commercial food and my guys wolf it down!!

Anyway - sorry - I know that's probably not what you were wanting to hear - but its certainly worked for us.

Hope it helps.

Cheers,

Westiemum

We've thought about this but I'm just not sure it's a viable option for our family. We are remote and meat etc is expensive and some things are not easily available. We've been talking to our breeder about this as she is raising this litter on an all natural diet and we've come to the conclusion that going the commercial route will work again for us - but we are still considering and searching, nothing's set in stone or forever!

I guess I'm not understanding how everyone is figuring out how much dry dog food is the minimum to provide complete daily nutrition. I get substituting veggies and the like to keep bulk and reduce calories, but I don't want to reduce the dry so much that she isn't getting what she needs.

Absolutely understand - some of the barf websites and recipes can look very daunting and time-consuming. I had the same 'time poor' problem - so what I devised with my vet was a variation - It takes about 5 minutes to feed my whole menagerie in the morning (including the cat!) and about 10 minutes at night - The pooches get meat and cut-up veggies ( whatever is safe for doggies and on special) or frozen black and gold mixed veggies. I know you said meat was expensive where you are - can you get roo anywhere at a reasonable price - its ideal for dieting doggies as its very lean. I also add in the occasional cans of sardines, mackeral (home brand), a slop of yoghurt, eggs and a bone once a week or so. I buy veggies in bulk from from the market when I can (a dollar a bag) and the same with meat. I usually use the commercial barf patties but they might not be available in your area - but they make life really simple - assuming I remember to get them out of the freezer!!!

As to the dry food for nutrition issue, Poodle Wrangler is absolutely correct - as usual!! That advice is really sound - if you have to choose between nutrition or weight loss - choose weight loss every time - sometimes you have to be 'cruel to be kind' - and the weight loss has made such a difference to my boy - he's pain free and bouncing around like an 8 year old puppy!!!

You might like to have a look at a couple of recent threads as well - one of mine 'coat advice please' - everyone's been so helpful there and there's some really helpful discussion on allergic itchy dogs. And the other one is titled 'arthritis' - but has some helpful supplement info as well for different approaches.

So good luck - hope it goes really well for you - I know how confusing it can be trying to find the solutions that work for you and your dogs - and we aren't all the same.

Would love to hear how you get on.

Cheers,

Westiemum

Ps How about sending darling husband out for a walk with pooch with a bag of tiny carrot pieces as training treats!!

[Akitaowner]

its simple - until your OH sorts his act out the dog will suffer.

i feed my 2 bones in the evening and kibble in the morning (for speed and balance) they rarely get any extras - i bought a bag of biscuits (bone marrow looking ones from smackos) about 6 months ago that we are still using them. they probably get a couple a week. they get 2 carcasses in the evening and 0.5-1cup kibble in the morning - they are around 45-50kgs each but not very high energy.

If they are looking fat i cut down for a week or two on their dry and red bone if they are looking too lean i pick it up again - makes things very easy! most dogs i know (not my boy tho!) are always 'looking' for food, if its around they will beg etc.

i keep them a little fatter in winter coz they are outside most of the time.

As other have said before scraps dont have the same nutritional value as a meal so you shouldnt be cutting kibble for the scraps....

[Nekhbet]

Ask your OH if he will be happy to start paying for all the problems that go with an overweight animal and is he happy that he will cause eventual suffering if not an early death to her. And be serious because thats what can happen.

I see a lot of people that dont take it seriously and 'oh you know I cant help it, when they look at you like that' or 'its only a little bit'

Dogs were not designed to be fat animals. Their backs, internal organs and joints suffer for it ESPECIALLY in larger breeds.

Grab a wooden spoon and smack him on the knuckles 1st. Then fill his pockets with diet kibble and he can feed her like that or from the designated 'Treat Bowl' in the fridge with approved food in it. Nothing more or another smack on the knuckles. You have to be tough or that dog will never lose weight.

[cazxxz]

You could try feeding your dog based on his ideal weight, minus one half to a quarter.

The advice in this thread has been great - preparing the meal early in the day and then only giving "treats" from that bowl is such a good idea. I know how hard it is to convince overfeeders that they are being cruel. I have been trying for aaages to convince my mother that it is more cruel to allow your dog to become overweight than it is to allow him to become slightly underweight.

I wish you the best of luck!