My Pug Puppy Has Mange

[Olli]

Hello,

I am new to the forum and am seeking advice.

My pug puppy has been diagnosed by two veterinarian with Red [demodectic] Mange.

The poor thing needs monitoring constantly as of course she scratches and makes the pustules bleed.

I am treating her with the medication and wash and am hoping for a good outcome, however both vets explained that this takes a long time to resolve. I also have about a 70% chance of success.

I have communicated with the breeder who is disputing what I am saying. I have also been told that this has been transferred by the mother within the first few days of her life.

I do intend to take the matter further with the breeder and am wanting some advice on this.

Also ANYONE who has experienced this will know the heartache it causes just watching them and I would just love to speak with people who can give me some support and advice.

[Winterpaws]

You'll find heaps of info on here and loads and loads of stories

schmoo's cattle girl thread

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...76&hl=mange

General mange discussions

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...57&hl=mange

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...36&hl=mange

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...86&hl=mange

and my personal mange darling - Henry

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...85&hl=dogue

What treatment has the vet given you? I took in a pup that had manage and the recovery was fast

[Olli]

THANK you so much for the links. I really appreciate it. I love this pup so much.

I am treating her with Ivomec and Amatik [ I think that's how it's spelt]

I understand that this really is the best and only cure if it is going to work.

Again, THANK YOU.

[WreckitWhippet]

Sadly it is common in some Pug lines.

What a bummer of a way to start your Pug ownership. I can't offer much in the way of practical support as we have never had to deal with it. The only thing i can suggest is that you look at diet and healing from the inside out as well. I;m sure there will be dietry info in the threads.

You might also want to PM Puggles, I think her experience would extend to mange

Poor baby

[Winterpaws]

It's a horrible disease but it is treatable so try not to let it get you down. Did the vet reccomend Pyohex shampoo? It's very good and I found it so soothing for them

PM me if you want some help

[Olli]

Yes, I have done some research myself and understand that it can be triggered by diet and stress. Her diet is really good [i won't go into it because I will bore you all to death] and the most stressful thing she does is torment the cats!!!

I think she must have inherited a weak immune system.

She has been having little vomits as well just in the last three days. And I guess that has something to do with the treatment.

I have never owned a pug before so it has been a bit of a rough start, but I have to say she is the best little friend and clearly she loves me as she doesn't like to be too far away from me. Because I was worried about her scratching which was causing her to bleed I have allowed her to sleep with me!!!!! So I could put the cream on her to soothe her. Now if I get up in the middle of the night I come back in to find her asleep on my spot, head on pillow and makes no attempt to give up her new spot.

I started to think I was really spoiling her and had turned into one of those old ladies obsessed with her dog. But I see that I am not alone in how much love I have for a pet.

She was a wee bit overweight according to the vet so I have stopped feeding her with the cats [i wanted them to bond] so her intake of food has diminished somewhat as I suspected she was eating some of theirs as well.

She has just realised she can bark and she even surprised herself with a growl the other day. So I assume she will bark and growl as the robbers approach however, when they enter the premises she will lick them with every fibre of her being and welcome them with open arms. What I hope is that while she is greeting them like the prodigal son it will stop them, giving me ample time to call the cops

I have been meaning to join the forum for a while now to chat with other animal lovers, but after I had a run in with the breeder I just had to chat with someone to calm down, so thanks.

Another thing that I think is 'strange' is that her tummy gurgles ALOT, and this has always been the case. I haven't mentioned this to the vet and will at her next visit. To be honest I thought it might be a pug 'thing' like with the breathing and snorting.

[special_kali]

if the mange is due to a dietry problem then that might be it??

but i have a basset x who's tuymmy rumbles even though i'm giving her enough food so it might not be anything to worry about... good luck tho, puppies are the BEST

[Kadbury]

Poor little pug.........but she is sooooooooooooo cute and I am sure you are doing all in your power and coming in here and getting all the knowledge and sites to read up on is a great start.

P.S. Have you been warned that DOL is addictive......

Also there is a Pug thread....I will try and find it and post it for you........cheers and kiss the pug from me.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=106751

just introduce yourself and read the last 10 pages LOL or you will need glasses

[Olli]

Wow all, I'm pretty impressed. I have had some private messages as well, one from a vets nurse. So I am changing her diet.

She was originally on Hills but she really didn't like it and wouldn't eat it so I changed it to a store brand. And now that I think about it the whole problem really started after that. So she evidently has an allergy to preservatives, this has lowered her immunity and hey presto I have a "mangy maid"

I did give her a kiss!!

Yes, I agree this site is very addictive, last night my daughter and her boyfriend and I spent hours looking at the pug thread and the photo's. We are going to upload all the photo's we have taken and put them on the computer. I have a couple on my pc but we have some excellent ones on the camera.

We have decided that we are going to get another Pug, definately a black one as Olli is fawn.

This is Olli on her walk. We live opposite a salt water estuary with a sandy cove. This is her the first time she ever met another dog.

Edited December 15, 2007 by Olli

[Olli]

Thanks also for the link to the pyohex. I was able to purchase what I needed and got a Kong Ball and was even able to pay with paypal!!

[Dogsfevr]

Diet plays a big part in a dogs health & cat food is one to avoid.

What did the breeder suggest you feed??

Grumbly stomachs isnt normal so make a list of what you feed & also add any treats,pig ears etc etc.

All foods need to be considered when you have a dog with an issue.

With the bassett if its grumbling alot i would also consider the diet especially as its a breed so prone to bloat..

[~Anne~]

I also have about a 70% chance of success.

The 70% success is related to the re-currence of the condition, not this particular occurrence. Sadly, demodex usually returns throughout the dog's life.

I have communicated with the breeder who is disputing what I am saying. I have also been told that this has been transferred by the mother within the first few days of her life.

Demodex is thought to be passed on from the mother. Vets will advise that anyone with bitches producing pups with demodex be desexed.

I would think that if your breeder was an ethical breeder she would trace other pups from this particular bitch to see if any of them showed signs of demodex. Hopefully she is doing just this and if the results come back positive, that she desexes the bitch.

To be fair to the breeder, if she is doing all she can to determine if any of the other litters showed demodex, and if your pup is the first one that she was made aware of, then I would not be looking to pursue the matter any further. If she continues to breed with the bitch or there is evidence of other litters having demodex and she was aware of it then I would take further action against her.

She has been having little vomits as well just in the last three days. And I guess that has something to do with the treatment.

If she is vomitting then I would immediately cease treatment and refer her to your vet. They may need to adjust her dose or alter her medication. Vomitting is a symptom of a reaction to the ivermectin. Ivermectin can be deadly. Exercise EXTREME CAUTION when using it.

Be prepared to battle demodex for the life of your Pug. It might be best, if your finances allow it, to seek the advice of a veterinary skin specialist. If you are in NSW I can refer you to someone who has recently treated a rescue of mine that was re-homed.

Bubbles, the rescue Pug, was a mess with demodex and it has re-curred since she was re-homed. SHe reacted badly to the ivermectin the second time round and so an appointment was made with a skin specialist. Her treatmemt was altered and they had amazing and fast results second time round.

[Olli]

The breeder actually asked me how I had been treating her!!! As if I were doing something wrong. I feel awful enough thinking that perhaps if I had of continued with the Hills she might not have had an allergic reaction to the preservatives. Obviously her immune system broke down as a result of a trigger.

She has said she has spoken to other people [breeders] about this and that they and she is wary of my accusations. I am thinking that perhaps I should contact some pug breeders myself!!

Olli really doesn't like the medication. I have been putting it in her milk which she usually loves but now she won't touch the milk if it has the Ivomec in it. So I will call the vet on Monday. She is supposed to be taking it for 4 weeks.

The breeder won't accept any responsibility and I have asked her to stop breeding with the mother as I don't think it is worth the risk of putting any animal through this. I would never wish this on any owner either. But at $1300 a pup I don't think this will happen. She states that the mum has never had it nor has the two other pups from the litter who are fine!!

I have communicated with her today and am trying to build some bridges so that we can identify how to stop this from occurring again.

I am more than willing to accept that sometimes these things happen and that this may be the only pup that ever has a problem. But I am worried that this is not the case and that something ie a poor immune system or a propensity to having allergies is being passed on.

If she produces another pup though you would have to think that she would have to stop breeding with the mum.

Puggles thanks alot. Someone earlier mentioned that I should speak with you. I will have to wait a few days for the pyohex to be delivered as I would prefer to use it to the wash the vet gave me as it seems very chemically strong as well.

It has also been great to post her pics and to be able to compare her to other pugs as clearly we are all responsible owners who really look after our babies!!

Also, is there some type of breeders association? Perhaps I can contact other breeders that way or at least find out what other options there are?

Edited December 16, 2007 by Olli

[~Anne~]

To clear a few misconceptions;

The Pyohex will not kill the mites. Pyhoex is only to treat the skin externally. It is an antibacterial type wash. It is vitally important you speak with your vet about the Ivermectin treatment. Pyohex will not kill the mites and they can, and will, spread.

Diet will NOT give a dog demodex. A poor diet will not help a dog, or the health of a dog in general, but it will NOT give a dog demodex. There is NOTHING you have done to give the dog demodex. There is, however, a good possibility that the pup was prone to develop the condition due to its genetic heritage.

Most dogs have demodectic mites on them. The problem only occurs when the dogs immune system fails to keep the mites under control and they multiply rapidly. The immune problem is considered to be genetically linked as there are obvious links with this condition but, ultimately, the genetic link has not been proven beyond doubt.

How old was your dog when you first noticed the condition?

Most often, it begins to appear around the 6 - 12 week mark with just a few spots around the eyes/muzzle or facial area in general. If left untreated it has the tendency to spread. It can eventually spread across the whole body like this;

(Edited to add: Having a look at the pics you have posted here, it appears that it is only localised demodex??)

Edited December 16, 2007 by Puggles

[Olli]

awww poor puppy.

I first noticed it when she was about 4 and a half months months. She is 6 months now. I thought she may have had an allergy to flees and began treating her for that. A week or so later I noticed that she had some blood and I thought she had scratched herself so I treated her for that as well.

This went on for about 2-3 weeks then it was like opening pandora's box. One morning I woke up and the red lumps had spread a lot and seemed to have a white head. So I was sitting outside the vets practice at when he opened that morning.

We treated her for another two - three weeks and it got worse and worse to I took her to another vet. He also suggested cortisone which I completely refused as it is a very dangerous drug and I'm trying to give her a good life, not shorten it with that type of drug.

Yes, it is localized and that at least is something.

Puggles, while I do know that it's nothing I have done I still feel so awful. I do feel so much better seeing all the other pugs because I think she looks healthy within herself just like everyone else's pugs.

I will give Rex her vet a call first thing tomorrow. He was the one who told me to contact the breeder, that Olli should never have a litter.

I have been treating her with the ivomec and the wash amatik for about a week now. There most definitely has been an improvement particularly in the last three days.

Here is another question???

As the breeder tells me that her brothers are not affected and nor is the mother. If it is a one off thing, is the breeder safe to carry on. Or even with one pug with the disease should the breeder stop. I think this is her rationale that because Olli is the only pug it must be something that has just happened or as a result of something I have done.

I think the thing that really hurt was when she accused me of not wanting her any more. I don't even know what prompted that call. As I never said I was wanting to return her. In fact if they tried to get her back I would defend her with my very life to be totally honest. It would literally be pistols at dawn.

[RuralPug]

Hello, give your darling girl a cuddle for me.

There is heaps of info on here about people's experiences with Demodex and various opinions re breeding/genetic heritage etc.

I know Winterpaws has already posted some links I am too lazy (shame) to check if these are duplicates but here is some interesting reading for you:

Demodectic Mange, Vaccinate or Not?

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=116578

Mange Girl From Great Western Vets, Ruby went to her new home today!!

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=103976

Another Pug With Demodex!, Bindi

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=113197

Will His Fur Grow Back, had severe demadectic mange

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=112090

Demodectic Mange, Is it from 'poor' breeding?

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=99041

Demodectic Mange, Ways to treat this dreaded skin problem

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=83657

Bulldog Pup Has Demodectic Mites

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=91633

Pup With Bare Patch, bare patch of skin

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=83606

Hero Has Demodex Mites Help!, Ivomec worth the risk??

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=79460

Demodectic Mange, how do dogs get it

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=76337

Breeding After Demodex Treatment, Female Dobie w/demodex

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=58278

Dogue De Bordeaux, Update 18 July 2006

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=30485

My opinion? If she has just one bout of localised "puppy" mange, and none of the others in her litter or previous siblings got it, then I wouldn't be too concerned about the genetic side of it at all. If she gets it as an adult, I would have her speyed. JMO.